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Belt that functions like a belt of giant strength +2 that can be upgraded to +6 by paying normal upgrade cost. In addition it provides constant Divine favor caster level based on wearers HD (can't use UMD to raise it).
Cursed effects...
Makes you swap gender. (Belt doesn't work on creatures with no gender).
How cruel it would be would depend on the player/PC involved. Have your players never played characters of a different gender than their own? Does the PC seem to be strongly attached to a specific gender (amazon, man's man, etc)? Either one would make it more cruel.
Nice. Depending on whether it falls into the hands of someone who only cares about the numbers or someone who's big on roleplaying their character's trials and tribulations.
Is the gender swap only active when you put on the belt and goes away when you take the belt off, or is it a curse that whammies the wearer the first time they put the belt on but after that they can still partake of the belt's beneficial effects while looking for a way to reverse the curse (assuming that this is desired)?
The belt of gender swapping is the classic "It's not a bug -- It's a feature!" curse. If you've got someone who wants to be the opposite sex for whatever reason -- preferred gender, disguise, sexual exploration, inheritance, etc. -- it's worth extra money. If you've got someone who wants to remain as their current sex, it's a defect that's anywhere from annoying to horrifying.
Another option (although it might end up disgusting), is just the plain old "You cannot remove the item"-curse.
When put on a belt, it can cause some rather unpleasant situations.
The constant divine favor is quite powerful, and you should consider whether or not it is too powerful. Up to +3 att/dam is a lot. Personally, I would prefer such an item to have uses per day.
Gender is preeminent until Wish is applied, or until the death of the wearer. Like curse other cursed items it can't be removed without a remove curse cast.
So you've got a magic belt that swaps the gender of the wearer, once per customer, but may be removed by casting a Remove Curse. This means you've got an item that lets you do sex changes for the price of a Remove Curse.
You could market this service to those that want it. Your best market would be a slaver. Are males more in demand because of need for soldiers or are females more in demand as breeding stock? If either is true, the belt is invaluable and more than worth the price of a single Wish.
I know a barbarian who would go nuts for that item. She was a he before the campaign started, then magic happened. In that campaign, body swapping of various kinds happens a lot and has dramatic effects on personality.
I've played characters myself who would be faintly amused or just not give a damn.
Really it depends who it's meant for.
Edit: Ninjad by Mikaze. I have played a character who wanted that gender removal thing. Also designed (but never played) a scifi character who's body was a sexless machine. And yes, they were both pretty nuts.
The ol' Belt of Genderbender, is it?
Hardly cruel, unless the player is sexist.
The ol' Belt of Genderbender, is it?
Hardly cruel, unless the player is sexist.
Agreed. Or the character, I guess. In any case, it would take pretty seriously f'd up individual (player or character) to consider a gender switch a 'curse' demeaning and disastrous enough to negate the overwhelming benefits of this item.
I'd actually find it kind of amusing if such a curse were to somehow be thrown at me.
Then again, I'd probably start to miss being a beautiful woman and find a way to change back.
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Agreed. Or the character, I guess. In any case, it would take pretty seriously f'd up individual (player or character) to consider a gender switch a 'curse' demeaning and disastrous enough to negate the overwhelming benefits of this item.The ol' Belt of Genderbender, is it?
Hardly cruel, unless the player is sexist.
Well not true people who feel like they were born as the wrong gender feel curse. Now imagine if they were once their prefer gender.
Well not true people who feel like they were born as the wrong gender feel curse. Now imagine if they were once their prefer gender.Agreed. Or the character, I guess. In any case, it would take pretty seriously f'd up individual (player or character) to consider a gender switch a 'curse' demeaning and disastrous enough to negate the overwhelming benefits of this item.The ol' Belt of Genderbender, is it?
Hardly cruel, unless the player is sexist.
I can appreciate your reasoning, but you might consider a little more research.
If you are suggesting that this item curses the wearer with gender identity disorder that is a different story. I may have misread the description, but I got the impression you were merely suggesting that this item appeared like something that would hypermasculinize the wearer, but instead would make them female. Yes, it works both ways, but the implication of the strength bonus is that it turns a beefy barbarian in to a lady. If there was more in this than simple "you are a gurl now, hurhur. gurls are weak" then I apologise for not recognising it. If you meant to inflict a gender identity disorder or body dismorphia as a curse then I take back my reservations about what you consider a curse.
Okay, so it's less derp and more mind shattering horror now.
In that case it's a cursed item and needlessly cruel at that in my opinion.
Why? Because I know a few people who actually feel they were born the wrong gender.
Being stuck in the wrong body is bad. Ask a hundred random people about whether they'd like to keep their genitals an I bet I know what they all reply. Nobody needs to do research or understand disorders to know that.
If it happens in a humorous context, or for a limited time, it's still funny "hurr durr ur a gurl" type stuff, and that's ok. It's inherently funny to watch a sexist character suffer karmic punishment at the hands of others like them, for example.
If it lasts a long time, it's body horror on the level of turning into a non-humaniod creature, even if your new form is normal-looking and attractive. Unless it happens to pretty unusual person, of course.
It's a perfectly reasonable fantasy curse however you want to spin it.
I've always liked it because it's fun if presented right and it gives the character something they really want to get rid of without crippling them in combat. It even presents opportunities for character development and doubles as a disguise.
That's a hell of a lot of mileage for an effect that can be described in one sentence. That's elegant design right there.
Being stuck in the wrong body is bad. Ask a hundred random people about whether they'd like to keep their genitals an I bet I know what they all reply. Nobody needs to do research or understand disorders to know that.
If it happens in a humorous context, or for a limited time, it's still funny "hurr durr ur a gurl" type stuff, and that's ok. It's inherently funny to watch a sexist character suffer karmic punishment at the hands of others like them, for example.
If it lasts a long time, it's body horror on the level of turning into a non-humaniod creature, even if your new form is normal-looking and attractive. Unless it happens to pretty unusual person, of course.It's a perfectly reasonable fantasy curse however you want to spin it.
I've always liked it because it's fun if presented right and it gives the character something they really want to get rid of without crippling them in combat. It even presents opportunities for character development and doubles as a disguise.
That's a hell of a lot of mileage for an effect that can be described in one sentence. That's elegant design right there.
I think that we will probably have to agree to disagree, on some aspects of this. It seems, however, we agree that if this curse inflicts a dismorphic disorder it is unquestionably a curse, and a brutal and cruel one at that. I will also largely agree that the affliction could be fun and clever if presented right - but the design of this item offers no hint of its presentation, other than to imply a juxtaposition of strength and femininity. Which I would suggest doesnt count as 'presented right'. In addition, since this item is simply that, an item (as opposed to a plot device), it serves only to encourage an incomplete understanding of both gender roles and the concept of gender in a fantasy world.
I wonder if items like these even work on beings that only have one gender, like nymphs or harpies.
no hint of its presentation, other than to imply a juxtaposition of strength and femininity. Which I would suggest doesn't count as 'presented right'. In addition, since this item is simply that, an item (as opposed to a plot device), it serves only to encourage an incomplete understanding of both gender roles and the concept of gender in a fantasy world.
I wouldn't say that. It's a juxtaposition which exists in the minds of plenty of characters who fit over-the-top masculine fantasy stereotypes, so it's appropriate if it's meant for such a character.
I also think you might be reading too much into it. Who says this item was for a guy? It could do exactly the opposite of what you're assuming.It being a non-plot item in no way promotes an incomplete understanding of anything. Items can become important due to their effects, and just because something is not a significant part of a story doesn't mean it will be done wrong.
I think you are being generous. Which is pretty easy, considering the brevity or the OP. But of course you are right : without the intention recorded this item is perfectly safe, reasonable, and responsible if applied in a mature and intelligent way. Such a point is almost worthless, but inarguably correct.
No, I think that's a very worthwhile point. An item that powers people up at the cost of changing their gender is nowhere even close to an item about the supposed weakness of girls.
I don't know what your game is like, but it would not play out that way in any of mine, and not even because the groups are particularly mature or knowledgeable about the subject.
Then perhaps your impressions are clouded by a lack of exposure, which is exceptionally lucky for you. I am envious. Unfortunately in my line of work I encounter a crowd who would not be as mature, sensible, or enlightened as you and your group.
Regardless, I think its certainly an excellent rule to follow for players and GMs, so in fact it is a very important point to make.
Then perhaps your impressions are clouded by a lack of exposure, which is exceptionally lucky for you. I am envious. Unfortunately in my line of work I encounter a crowd who would not be as mature, sensible, or enlightened as you and your group.
Regardless, I think its certainly an excellent rule to follow for players and GMs, so in fact it is a very important point to make.
I just re-read that and it may sound patronising - that was not my intention. Here is a smiley to convey tone! :)
Sure. Don't worry about it.
I should probably clarify that it wouldn't be handled in a super mature, enlightened way, so much as it would barely be handled at all.
One guy has his bard hit on everything female without restraint, so things might get a little tiresome if he kept on about it. Shouldn't be too bad, because while his character is a clown, he has a survival instinct.
Other than that, it would be seen by the players as a minor obstacle and the characters as a giant pain in the ass to be overcome as soon as they can get access to a capable NPC.
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Being stuck in the wrong body is bad. Ask a hundred random people about whether they'd like to keep their genitals an I bet I know what they all reply. Nobody needs to do research or understand disorders to know that.
If it happens in a humorous context, or for a limited time, it's still funny "hurr durr ur a gurl" type stuff, and that's ok. It's inherently funny to watch a sexist character suffer karmic punishment at the hands of others like them, for example.
If it lasts a long time, it's body horror on the level of turning into a non-humaniod creature, even if your new form is normal-looking and attractive. Unless it happens to pretty unusual person, of course.It's a perfectly reasonable fantasy curse however you want to spin it.
I've always liked it because it's fun if presented right and it gives the character something they really want to get rid of without crippling them in combat. It even presents opportunities for character development and doubles as a disguise.
That's a hell of a lot of mileage for an effect that can be described in one sentence. That's elegant design right there.
Thank you, you said what I wanted to say after I put my foot in my mouth.
This boils down to a role playing vs roll playing question.
A serious role player would delve into the personal psyche of their character and figure out how that character would react to having their genitals reversed. Some characters would be devastated and horrified, some would be "ho-hum" and some would be "hey, cool! bring me a mirror!"
Roll players for the most part would treat it as meaningless.
Of my current active characters, one would be horrified (he's something of a sexually addicted playboy), one would not care and one would be intrigued.
If there was more in this than simple "you are a gurl now, hurhur. gurls are weak" then I apologise for not recognising it. If you meant to inflict a gender identity disorder or body dismorphia as a curse then I take back my reservations about what you consider a curse.
Err, what? The item changes gender, something which 99% of the time has no impact on the actual mechanics of the game. There is not "hurhur girls are weak" implication.
The item however, does in fact state that the abilities, mind, and spirit of the person are not affected. Basically, turning a man or women into a gender they are uncomfortable with. In addition, a critical failure means you become androgynous and neither gender, which is worse.
Cruel?
Give this to AM BARBARIAN.
Thank you, you said what I wanted to say after I put my foot in my mouth.
I still don't agree that you said anything wrong, but you're welcome.
There already is a gender-changing belt.
how did all of us miss this...
I didn't miss anything. I just didn't think it was relevant whether there was a gender changing item in the rulebook or not.
The specific item in the OP appears to be homebrew, so it's in the right forum. Adding abilities also makes it less cruel for the character who wears it and more cruel for the character who identifies it only to find he can't use it without changing gender.
It turns out that it's the item that changes gender, not the wearer.
That belt made of male bearskin is now made of female bearskin. Very few people are able to tell the difference.
I actually once built a character around this concept (never got to play him/her, but only because the campaign bottomed out).
The idea was that the character was studying to be a wizard, went poking around his masters stuff, accidentally finds girdle of opposite gender and tries it on (on the dare of another apprentice). live changing event, character becomes obsessed with curses and changes career to become a witch (graveborn archtype, for voodoo doll fun). It was for a high level game, so I was going to have all of the character's magic items have curses on them (varying degrees of seriousness, but nothing character breaking), tons of curse hexes and spells, plus starting play with some minor curses that were self-inflicted while he/she was still experimenting. I even had a cursed sentient item to go with it, along with a 7-page backstory... and the campaign died before I could even have my first game. :(