Mythic Tiers and Base Attack Bonus

[Kenneth.T.Cole]

Base Attack Bonus is one of those untouchable functions at the core of the Pathfinder system.

So what better time to manipulate it than in Mythic Tiers?

It seems to me that everyone is always looking for ways to get an extra attack during a full-attack action, without granting an all out free for all. Hence, under the right auspice (mythic powers) a simple BAB bonus could really make all the difference.

Hence, I suggest the following rule:

Mythic Characters get a base attack bonus increase of +1 every even Tier . This would eventually result in 1 additional attack during a full-round attack action.

IE:

5th level fighter, 2nd Tier Mythic: +5 BAB, +1 MBAB=+6/+1
10th level fighter, 2nd Tier Mythic: +10 BAB, +1 MBAB=+11/+6/+1
10th level fighter, 10th tier Mythic: +10 BAB, +5 MBAB=+15/+10/+5
11th level fighter, 10th tier Mythic: +11 BAB, +5 MBAB=+16/+11/+6/+1
15th level fighter, 2nd tier Mythic: +15 BAB, +1 MBAB=+16/+11/+6/+1
19th level fighter, 2nd tier Mythic: +19 BAB, +1 MBAB=+20/+15/+10/+5
20th level fighter, 2nd tier Mythic: +20 BAB, +1 MBAB=+21/+16/+11/+6/+1
20th level fighter, 10th tier Mythic: +20 BAB, +5 MBAB=+25/+20/+15/+10/+5

Thoughts?

Ken

[goldomark]

Mythic was made to avoid that sort of bonus you found in Epic play.

[PhelanArcetus]

While I'm not sure I want it increasing BAB directly, rather than a bonus to attacks... I'm thinking that some sort of bonus to attacks, saves, AC, CMB/CMD, etc., is going to be needed.

Simply put, as your mythic tier increases, unless what you're fighting is also mythic, you're going to run into increasing disparities between your numbers and those of the monsters you're fighting.

Using path abilities will let you hit, but otherwise you'll need the mythic points, which will only affect one roll. And while the strength-based fighter using Champion would likely put all his mythic ability upgrades into strength... what about his saves and AC? What about the switch-hitting ranger who has to choose between ability to hit in melee and ability to hit at range? And so on.

I would suggest providing a half-tier increase to attacks, AC, and saves, and providing fewer stat increases.

[KainPen]

Half Tier would be same as epic level book. I don't think it is needed. But maybe spending mythic point to increase your roll need to be a non-action that can be used at any time you fail a roll, Thus you can spend points on every attack. I really don't think AC is an issuse, people are already saying they can't hit. Saves can already be be added to with the MP. If it become a non action that can be done on your turn. there is no need to increase saves. As it stand in the core system AC falls apart at high level any way unless a person speiclize in it.

[Venomblade]

It already adds to your attack bonus by giving you a +2 to a stat of your choice every other tier. I think added directly to BAB would be overkill. Clever thought though!

[Diego Rossi]

Drawbacks:

1) the more attack your class has the less gain from this change (a wizard 20 Mythic 10 character will get 3 attacks and increase his number of attacks by 50%, a cleric 20 would increase his number of attacks by 33%, a fighter by 25%);

2) it would make the builds capable to consistently deliver a full attack stronger that those that need mobility;

3)mess with feat prerequisites, some prestige class prerequisite and so on. That would require a complete rewriting of a lot of rules or some very complicate rule in the mythic book unless your goal is to change those features;

4) not really needed. As KainPen pointed out you will generally get a +1 to attack and damage or to the DC of the saves of your enemies every 2 levels from the characteristic increase. There is no need to get a further +1 to attack.

[O11O1]

Well, if the point of this exercise is to get more attacks, then maybe instead of raising BAB, mythic could lower your extra attack penalty from 5 to 4, and then maybe even to 3 at halfway up the Tiers.

Thus, instead of getting your first extra attack +6/+1, you instead get your first extra at +5/+1, and then your second extra would be +9/+5/+1.

full chart (for fighter, assuming Mythic 1-5):
+1
+2
+3
+4
+5 /+1

+6 /+2
+7 /+3
+8 /+4
+9 /+5 /+1
+10 /+6 /+2

+11 /+7 /+3
+12 /+8 /+4
+13 /+9 /+5 /+1
+14 /+10 /+6 /+2
+15 /+11 /+7 /+3

+16 /+12 /+8 /+4
+17 /+13 /+9 /+5 /+1
+18 /+14 /+10 /+6 /+2
+19 /+15 /+11 /+7 /+3
+20 /+16 /+12 /+8 /+4

It even still caps out at 5 iteratives, same as the current system, just you get the bonuses faster.

[Atarlost]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Drawbacks:

1) the more attack your class has the less gain from this change (a wizard 20 Mythic 10 character will get 3 attacks and increase his number of attacks by 50%, a cleric 20 would increase his number of attacks by 33%, a fighter by 25%);

2) it would make the builds capable to consistently deliver a full attack stronger that those that need mobility;

3)mess with feat prerequisites, some prestige class prerequisite and so on. That would require a complete rewriting of a lot of rules or some very complicate rule in the mythic book unless your goal is to change those features;

#1 can be circumvented by making it only happen for combat oriented paths.

#2 is a ship that sailed when 3.0 was published. Paizo hasn't chosen to change things so apparently they're okay with full attacks dominating and non-full attack martials not having nice things.

I would think #3 would be most of the point. You can get high level feats earlier because you're mythic.

[Diego Rossi]

1&2) So if increasing the disparity is good why don't we give full spellcaster 12 levels of spells?
Saying "the disparity already exists" don't justify making it larger.
If you give this boost to the martial oriented path what you will give to to the other paths?

3) for you it can be a good reason to make the change, for me it is a good reason not to make it.