Combat maneuvers for a boss?


Advice


Many of the combat maneuvers work much better if used by a party against a boss, as opposed to vice versa. For instance, a dirty trick lets you impose a condition (sickened, etc.) for a round, but the victim can remove it as a move action. That's worth trying if it's a party attacking a single foe; it makes no sense for the foe to try it against a single party. Similarly, disarming, tripping, feinting, and most of the other common maneuvers work better if you have the action economy on your side.

I'm trying to think of combat maneuvers that are broadly likely to be worthwhile for a boss. The only one that comes to mind is Dazzling Display -- not really a combat maneuver, but a nice mass debuff that's arguably worth burning a FRA if the boss has a nice high Intimidate. Any other ideas?

thanks,

Doug M.


Tripping the main melee fighter usually pays off. You get an AOO when they stand back up, so it's not a waste of a turn, and if they don't stand up, hey, you've effectively dropped their BAB and AC by 4, and force the healer to come into melee range to heal him.


Also, you can solve this issue in the action economy by giving the boss a cohort, pet, or minions. Boss throws trip attacks, and his posse goes to ravage the man on the ground.


I'd have to dig through my old notepad ideas to find him, but I believe once I made an Antipaladin/Aldori Swordlord who was all about intimidating his opponents. The Aura of Cowardice helps his cause, and that Cruelty that shakens opponents. Say, level 4 Antipaladin, level 5ish Swordlord....depending on how high level you want him, maybe even throw in some Magus - Kensai levels. I liked my guy to be a catfolk, but whatever suits ya. I always thought if you could pull it off alright, that'd be a neat concept for a baddie.


Googleshng wrote:
Tripping the main melee fighter usually pays off. You get an AOO when they stand back up, so it's not a waste of a turn

Actually, it is. You burned an action to trip him, and now you get an AoO when he stands up. How is this better than just hitting him?

(Yes, I know it's more complicated than that -- once you trip him, you get a bonus to hit. So your AoO is more likely to hit than a straight attack. OTOH, you have to roll to do the maneuver, risking failure. So, while it's possible that you'll come out ahead, it's not obvious that you necessarily will.)

Doug M.


O11O1 wrote:
Also, you can solve this issue in the action economy by giving the boss a cohort, pet, or minions. Boss throws trip attacks, and his posse goes to ravage the man on the ground.

Sure. And that can go the other way, too -- give him a wolf or other tripping pet, so the boss can Power Attack on prone foes.

But I'm still wondering if there's a good boss maneuver other than Dazzling Display.

Doug M.

Sovereign Court

With improved trip for one attack you get two actions. The tripping provokes an AOO, giving the boss one attack. And then standing provokes another. And if you have allies/pets/minions they all get the extra attacks as well. And if the boss specializes in trip, has all the feats, and is several levels higher than the PCs, he'll probably succeed more of then not.

Scarab Sages

Even nastier, Whirlwind attack + Greater Trip + Combat Reflexes, would let you knock down as much of the party as is within melee reach, and take AOO against 3-4 of them (or more if you have a high enough Dex modifier).

Grand Lodge

A Choker, with levels in Lore Warden Fighter, focused on Disarm and Steal Maneuvers can be a gnarly boss.


Lucio wrote:
Even nastier, Whirlwind attack + Greater Trip + Combat Reflexes, would let you knock down as much of the party as is within melee reach, and take AOO against 3-4 of them (or more if you have a high enough Dex modifier).

Whirlwind Attack says that you can't get any other attacks, even from other feats. Would that apply to Greater Trips attacks of opportunity? Probably not, just wanted to make sure.


Mechanical Pear wrote:
Whirlwind Attack says that you can't get any other attacks, even from other feats. Would that apply to Greater Trips attacks of opportunity? Probably not, just wanted to make sure.

I don't think Whirlwind Attack shuts down attacks of opportunity, since they're not part of the attack routine. That clause is there to prevent bonus attacks from iteratives, Haste, Cleaving Finish, etc.

Remember, you're not getting attacks of opportunity because of Greater Trip; you're getting attacks of opportunity because an opponent is provoking attacks of opportunity.


Very true. I was thinking that, just wasn't 100% sure on it.

Grand Lodge

Just give them levels in Lore Warden, and bust out Combat Maneuvers.

Like a Boss.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Googleshng wrote:
Tripping the main melee fighter usually pays off. You get an AOO when they stand back up, so it's not a waste of a turn

Actually, it is. You burned an action to trip him, and now you get an AoO when he stands up. How is this better than just hitting him?

(Yes, I know it's more complicated than that -- once you trip him, you get a bonus to hit. So your AoO is more likely to hit than a straight attack. OTOH, you have to roll to do the maneuver, risking failure. So, while it's possible that you'll come out ahead, it's not obvious that you necessarily will.)

Doug M.

Tripping can be done in place of a melee attack, so if your BBEG has iteratives it's not such a waste. Say your BBEG gets three iterative attacks; by tripping on the first attack you've forgone damage in exchange for getting +4 to hit on your next two attacks. So it's quite likely that 3rd iterative is much more likely to hit, so in the end you may not have sacrificed an attack at all. Furthermore, your opponent is now prone, which means it has to waste a move action (no full attack!) to stand up, provoking an AoO while doing so.

Disarm is another maneuver that can be done in place of a melee attack. If you spend the feats to get Greater Disarm you're getting a +4 on the attack roll and if you succeed your opponent's weapon goes flying 15ft in a random direction. If your PCs are like most players their backup weapon (assuming they have one to begin with) is likely to be greatly inferior to their primary weapon, so their attacks are going to be greatly dimished. Furthermore, their likely expensive primary weapon is now lying on the ground waiting to be picked up by your familiar/animal companion or one of your lackeys. If they go to pick it up, you've made them waste a full turn of actions at the cost of a single attack. That's a good tradeoff.


You could make the boss a full caster and have him make combat maneuvers wich his spells mixed with summoned monsters.

Depending on how you read it you could use toppling magic missiles and shoot each missile at another palyer, making a trip attempt against everyone.

Perhaps in addition use black tentacles, web and stuff like that.

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