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1. Is it possible for me to start off with +1 chainmail and then upgrade it to +1 mithral chainmail (by only paying the difference in cost, which is +4k gp, and add the mithral property to the chainmail)?
No, you have to buy the mithral from scratch.
2. Regarding Celestial Armor, since now it doesn't state what material it's made out of, is it possible for me to buy +2 mithral chainmail and upgrade directly to celestial armor, only paying the difference? Or do I have to buy regular +2/+3 chainmail (it can't be mithral), and upgrade from there?
I'm not 100% convinced which, if either, is legal. The UE description doesn't sound like normal chain, but doesn't mention a particular material either.
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I have asked this a couple of times... but I would still really like a proper answer on how does one upgrade to Celestial Armor?
Can I get a +3 Chainmail and after having enough gold, upgrade it to Celestial Armor? (Which is a special +3 chainmail.)?
Or
A firm official NO to upgrading magical armors/weapons INTO specific magical armors/weapon in PFS, would also be nice. Since that will clear up any further confusion.
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I have asked this a couple of times... but I would still really like a proper answer on how does one upgrade to Celestial Armor?
Can I get a +3 Chainmail and after having enough gold, upgrade it to Celestial Armor? (Which is a special +3 chainmail.)?
Or
A firm official NO to upgrading magical armors/weapons INTO specific magical armors/weapon in PFS, would also be nice. Since that will clear up any further confusion.
No, I am not "official" but it has been answered officially by Mike previously in this thread that there is no upgrade path to Celestial Armor. That is because Celestial Armor is not made of Mithral. What it is made up of is another debate.
Now the second part of your questions isn't so easy. You can upgrade a +1 Cold Iron longsword into a Holy Avenger because there is a clear and consistent upgrade path.
--> Masterwork Cold Iron Longsword (330 gp)
--> +1 (+2,000 gp)
--> +2 (+6,000 gp)
--> Holy Avenger (+120,300 gp)
You can't upgrade a +3 Cold Iron Longsword to a Holy Avenger, as there is not a clear and consistent upgrade path.
Also, you Can upgrade a Steel +1 Flaming Burst longsword to a Flame Tongue longsword, but by the PFSOP RAW you can't upgrade a Adamantine +1 Flaming Burst longsword to a Flame Tongue longsword because the 'named item' (the Flame Tongue) is not Adamantine and there are no rules for how to do that.
Many things are easy and logical to do mathematically within the core rules (with a home GM) but could lead to unforeseen consequences and abuse in organized play so they re not allowed.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
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Now the second part of your questions isn't so easy. You can upgrade a +1 Cold Iron longsword into a Holy Avenger because there is a clear and consistent upgrade path.
--> Masterwork Cold Iron Longsword (330 gp)
--> +1 (+2,000 gp)
--> +2 (+6,000 gp)
--> Holy Avenger (+120,300 gp)-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
You missed the added cost to enchant cold iron. (I don't have my refernce material here now) I beleive that it is 2000gp.
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I have asked this a couple of times... but I would still really like a proper answer on how does one upgrade to Celestial Armor?
Can I get a +3 Chainmail and after having enough gold, upgrade it to Celestial Armor? (Which is a special +3 chainmail.)?
Or
A firm official NO to upgrading magical armors/weapons INTO specific magical armors/weapon in PFS, would also be nice. Since that will clear up any further confusion.
No, I am not "official" but it has been answered officially by Mike previously in this thread that there is no upgrade path to Celestial Armor. That is because Celestial Armor is not made of Mithral. What it is made up of is another debate.
Now the second part of your questions isn't so easy. You can upgrade a +1 Cold Iron longsword into a Holy Avenger because there is a clear and consistent upgrade path.
--> Masterwork Cold Iron Longsword (330 gp)
--> +1 (+2,000 gp)
--> +2 (+6,000 gp)
--> Holy Avenger (+120,300 gp)You can't upgrade a +3 Cold Iron Longsword to a Holy Avenger, as there is not a clear and consistent upgrade path.
Also, you Can upgrade a Steel +1 Flaming Burst longsword to a Flame Tongue longsword, but by the PFSOP RAW you can't upgrade a Adamantine +1 Flaming Burst longsword to a Flame Tongue longsword because the 'named item' (the Flame Tongue) is not Adamantine and there are no rules for how to do that.
Many things are easy and logical to do mathematically within the core rules (with a home GM) but could lead to unforeseen consequences and abuse in organized play so they re not allowed.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
I am a little confused. I did not say anything about Celestial Armor being made out of Mithral!
I am asking if a +3 Chainmail (A normal +3 Chainmail) can be upgraded into a Celestial Armor, since a Celestial Armor is in a +3 Chainmail with additional properties.
Is there any info on such an upgrade?
Note, Mithral has NOTHING to do with this!
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I am a little confused. I did not say anything about Celestial Armor being made out of Mithral!
I am asking if a +3 Chainmail (A normal +3 Chainamil) can be upgraded into a Celestial Armor, since a Celestial Armor is in a +3 Chainmail with additional properties.
Is there any info on such an upgrade?
Note, Mithral has NOTHING to do with this!
Sorry, I read into it 'Mithral'. You may have answered your own questions.
"A normal +3 Chainmail"
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence.
Celestial Armor is not 'normal' armor. When it is made, it is "so fine and light it ...".
FWIW, I would greatly benefit if there was an upgrade path, to the tune of several thousand gold when I had to sell my 'old' magic armor to 'upgrade' to Celestial Armor.
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Q: Can I get a masterwork rope?
Q: If so, what do I get for my money?
Q: Will it mesh up with the Equipment (Rope) Tricks feat?
Q: Does the +1 Bonus then benefit both the utilitarian and weapon applications?
Q: Do I pay twice for the masterwork to benefit both application groups?
Q: Can it be made out of Dark leaf fibers or something else more durable than spider silk?
Q: What is its breaking strength?
Q: Did I leave anything out?
Masterworked (50' by 1'' diameter) Darkleaf Rope
HP/inch 20
Hardness 10
Cost 3,750 gp, Weight 5 lbs
+1 to rope applications like those listed in the Equipment tricks talent.
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Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
I have a player who wants to buy the Sihedron Medallion from the first chapter of Runelords.
Slot neck; Price 3,500 gp; Weight —
DESCRIPTION
This medallion, a silver disc inscribed with the Sihedron, hangs on a leather cord. These medallions were given to favored agents of the runelords.
While worn, a Sihedron medallion grants its wearer a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. Once per day, as a free action, it may be commanded to bestow the effects of false life on the wearer. Placed on the neck of a dead body, a Sihedron medallion preserves the body indefinitely via a gentle repose effect.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, false life, gentle repose, resistance; Cost 1,750 gp
If I'm reading the quoted part right, he can't upgrade the resistance bonus since the item's name doesn't include "+1," correct?
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Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.I have a player who wants to buy the Sihedron Medallion from the first chapter of Runelords.
** spoiler omitted **
If I'm reading the quoted part right, he can't upgrade the resistance bonus since the item's name doesn't include "+1," correct?
Correct. It's a specific named magic item, and cannot be upgraded in PFS.
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There are two other ropes out there besides Hemp that are far better, and more expensive, making them essentially masterwork. You cannot make Darkleaf Rope (it only substitutes for leather items).
Thanks for the clarification. And now of the what I like to call the "Why in the hell would you want to waste money on that!" category:
I have an idea for a character that is Lifeguard (i.e. Hedge Sea witch). I want to give him an old-school surfboard (before the days of tail fins), but that is now travel capable.
So, here's what I came up with:
Darkwood Collapsible plank 400.4 gp 5 lbs.
Hinged in two places, collapsible planks can hold 250 pounds before breaking. The 10-foot-long plank folds down into a 3-foot-by-1-foot-by-6-inch bundle. Folding or unfolding it is a standard action.
Stats: 40 hp
Hardness 10
Cost 400.4 gp, Weight 5 lbs
It has absolutely no advantage unless it turns into an improvised weapon, but that's a question for another thread. ;)
Thoughts?
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I'm gonna take it as given that a corrosive weapon can be upgraded to a corrosive burst weapon with the proper amount of money and prestige.
Here is my actual question: Can you remove enchantments once placed?
Here is the specific progression I am thinking of:
Masterwork Composite Longbow
+1 Composite Longbow
+1 Adaptive Composite Longbow
+1 Adaptive Corrosive Composite Longbow
+1 Adaptive Holy Composite Longbow
There is no +1 "prequel" to Holy is why I ask. My hombrew fix is a +1 Align Weapon enchantment.
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The Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play states you "never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step", but a "Holy" weapon is not the "next step" from a "Corrosive" weapon.
Yes, I know, but Holy has no previous step. Without allowing enchantments to be removed this means that if I want a Holy weapon I have to sell my +2 weapon at 50% and buy a +3 weapon at full cost. That's quite a hit.
I suppose what I should have said is can we add my homebrew solution, a +1 Align Weapon enchantment? Easy fix, seems to me.
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Yes, I know, but Holy has no previous step. Without allowing enchantments to be removed this means that if I want a Holy weapon I have to sell my +2 weapon at 50% and buy a +3 weapon at full cost. That's quite a hit.
I suppose what I should have said is can we add my homebrew solution, a +1 Align Weapon enchantment. Easy fix, seems to me.
Nope, you have to be able to afford the total +2 Holy upgrade in one go.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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"Corrosive burst" can be considered the "next step" from "corrosive" because it does everything that the previous version does, plus more.
Afraid not. The "next step" just refers to going from +1 to +2, or +1 to +1 corrosive, etc. "Corrosive burst" and "corrosive" are separate enchantments, so you can't upgrade from one to the other.
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Afraid not. The "next step" just refers to going from +1 to +2, or +1 to +1 corrosive, etc. "Corrosive burst" and "corrosive" are separate enchantments, so you can't upgrade from one to the other.
That defies common sense. Both Corrosive and Corrosive Burst have the exact same prerequired spell, Acid Arrow, and make the step from +1 enhancement to +2 enhancement. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and exploding apples which sounds like a natural progression to me.
(processing)
Oh, wait, I see. Once an enchantment is put on you can never upgrade the enchantment. That blows. I've always allowed such upgrading in my homebrew games. Oh well, back to the salt mines to make the extra scratch.
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Yes, I know, but Holy has no previous step. Without allowing enchantments to be removed this means that if I want a Holy weapon I have to sell my +2 weapon at 50% and buy a +3 weapon at full cost. That's quite a hit.
It is, and, unfortunately, it's the price you pay for not planning ahead (or, changing your mind mid-stream on how you want to advance your weapon).
And, yeah, Holy (at +2 bonus pricing) is a darned expensive enhancement, especially if you are trying to put it onto anything other than a vanilla +1 weapon.
I've been playing and GMing 3E, 3.5, and Pathfinder for 13 years...the cost of making a weapon Holy has always been a frustration for my players. But, you know what? It's expensive because it's so darned good.
As has been already noted, it's not that PFS disallows removing enhancements; it's that there's no mechanism in the Pathfinder rules themselves for backing an enhancement out of a weapon.
I suppose what I should have said is can we add my homebrew solution, a +1 Align Weapon enchantment? Easy fix, seems to me.
PFS, as a rule, sticks to the Pathfinder rules, as written, and makes rare adjustments to the rules, nearly always when a certain rule doesn't fit in the OP environment (see the lack of magic item crafting, for example). I'm not in any way involved in campaign administration, but, based on what I've seen, I'd have to advise that the odds of such an idea gaining any traction are close to zero.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Afraid not. The "next step" just refers to going from +1 to +2, or +1 to +1 corrosive, etc. "Corrosive burst" and "corrosive" are separate enchantments, so you can't upgrade from one to the other.That defies common sense. Both Corrosive and Corrosive Burst have the exact same prerequired spell, Acid Arrow, and make the step from +1 enhancement to +2 enhancement. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and exploding apples which sounds like a natural progression to me.
(processing)
Oh, wait, I see. Once an enchantment is put on you can never upgrade the enchantment. That blows. I've always allowed such upgrading in my homebrew games. Oh well, back to the salt mines to make the extra scratch.
Yeah, it's a perfectly reasonable houserule, and I doubt anyone would call it game-breaking. But hey, you can always skip that awkward middle part (where you want +1 corrosive, but are saving up for corrosive burst) by getting GM credit!
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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And, yeah, Holy (at +2 bonus pricing) is a darned expensive enhancement, especially if you are trying to put it onto anything other than a vanilla +1 weapon.
I've been playing and GMing 3E, 3.5, and Pathfinder for 13 years...the cost of making a weapon Holy has always been a frustration for my players. But, you know what? It's expensive because it's so darned good.
This makes me think that access to a special "lesser holy" enchantment (priced at +1) would make a fantastic convention boon, don't you think?
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Question: My dwarf druid has 5 Fame. I purchased a Dragonhide Breastplate using 2 Prestige as Dragonhide is not Always Available (as far as I recall, at least, no books handy). If I want to make it a +1 armor, do I need to adhere to the Fame limit or no?
Yes. If you are paying for something using GP, then you are bound by the fame limits (unless you have a chronicle listing the exact article you are purchasing).
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Purchasing items with the 2PP from your faction does indeed get around fame restrictions.
Dragonhide is not "always available" but it purchasable with appropriate fame requirements met.
I agree with JohnF. Although you could get around the fame restriction by using PP, it would still kick in when making it +1, as a component of the item is not always available.
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Was the question ever answered: If I have a 10,000 GP headband of mental prowess +2, can I upgrade it to a headband of vast intelligence +4 for 6,000 GP. Also, what about changing that for free back and forward into a HEADBAND OF MENTAL SUPERIORITY +2 and what happens to the skill ranks?
I think the rule is that you can add, but you cannot subtract. Just guessing.
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Was the question ever answered: If I have a 10,000 GP headband of mental prowess +2, can I upgrade it to a headband of vast intelligence +4 for 6,000 GP. Also, what about changing that for free back and forward into a HEADBAND OF MENTAL SUPERIORITY +2 and what happens to the skill ranks?
I think the rule is that you can add, but you cannot subtract. Just guessing.
There was a thread here a week or so ago about the (in)ability to "change things back" on weapon enhancements -- there was a player who wanted to take his +2 weapon, "sell back" one of the pluses, then make it a +1 holy weapon. That wasn't possible -- it's not just a PFS issue, there's simply no provision in the Pathfinder rules for stepping a graduated magic item (like a weapon, or the headband) backwards. So, I wouldn't think you could subtract in this case, either.
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Purchasing items with the 2PP from your faction does indeed get around fame restrictions.
Dragonhide is not "always available" but it purchasable with appropriate fame requirements met.
I agree with JohnF. Although you could get around the fame restriction by using PP, it would still kick in when making it +1, as a component of the item is not always available.
Actually the fame restriction would not kick in when upgrading to +1 as a +1 enhancement is always available. As another example, I need a ton of fame to qualify to purchase adamantine full plate, but I need no fame to upgrade it (once I have it) to +1. I need a lot more fame though to upgrade it to +2. Look around for specific numbers as this example has been posted before.
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Actually the fame restriction would not kick in when upgrading to +1 as a +1 enhancement is always available. As another example, I need a ton of fame to qualify to purchase adamantine full plate, but I need no fame to upgrade it (once I have it) to +1. I need a lot more fame though to upgrade it to +2. Look around for specific numbers as this example has been posted before.
The problem is not the +1 enchantment, but the base item (which is dragonhide)
And actually, adamantine full plate is also always available :P
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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a +1 dragonhide armor is an always-available enhancement on a fame-required material which was bought using the fame-dodging prestige purchase mechanic. You need the money to pay the upgrade cost and the fame to cover the new total value of the item.
"Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp..." Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play page 27. The value of the dragonhide armor purchased with prestige points is 0gp, plus the 1,000gp armor enhancement = 1,000gp total value.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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More accurately, it's that ANY part of it isn't "always available".
The "always available" thing applies to the item as a whole; once you introduce an element that isn't on the "always available" list, the item itself no longer qualifies as "always available".
Do you have a source for this? It seems counter-intuitive to me.
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"Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp..." Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play page 27. The value of the dragonhide armor purchased with prestige points is 0gp, plus the 1,000gp armor enhancement = 1,000gp total value.
Incorrect, buying something with Prestige Points does not change the total value of something towards magical enhancements vs fame requirement.
That rule is just used to state it can't be sold and if you get rid of it you get no GP in return.
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Do you have a source for this? It seems counter-intuitive to me.More accurately, it's that ANY part of it isn't "always available".
The "always available" thing applies to the item as a whole; once you introduce an element that isn't on the "always available" list, the item itself no longer qualifies as "always available".
Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play
Basically if you buy something that is not always available (firearm, dragonhide armor) you will need the fame to be able to magically enhance it to even a +1 which is normally not required for always available items.
If that was not the case players good get around the restriction of a item not being always available just by buying a +1 version of the item.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Basically if you buy something that is not always available (firearm, dragonhide armor) you will need the fame to be able to magically enhance it to even a +1 which is normally not required for always available items.
If that was not the case players good get around the restriction of a item not being always available just by buying a +1 version of the item.
Linking to the GtPFSOP is not useful, please provide me with a page reference.
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OK, I re-read pages 24-25, and I don't see anything there that supports what you are saying.Linking to the GtPFSOP is not useful, please provide me with a page reference.I disagree, I think you will find a lot of use reading the entire Guide.
Edit: Pgs 24-25
Really?...
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame within his faction.
Example Dragonhide (Any armor)... Is beyond the gear above, therefore you need to have fame to purchase it.. +1 Dragonhide (Any armor) is no different, because it is still dragonhide (Any armor). Making it a +1 Dragonhide (Any armor) does not remove that it is restricted by Fame.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Example Dragonhide (Any armor)... Is beyond the gear above, therefore you need to have fame to purchase it.. +1 Dragonhide (Any armor) is no different, because it is still dragonhide (Any armor). Making it a +1 Dragonhide (Any armor) does not remove that it is restricted by Fame.
But you aren't purchasing +1 dragonhide (any armor). You already 'purchased' your dragonhide (any armor) with prestige, and now you are upgrading it to +1, and +1 armor is always available.
That is a bit of a fine point, but I think that it works. If it doesn't, then you still just need to look at the value of the magical enhancement because the base armor has a value of 0gp since you purchased it with prestige.
That rule is just used to state it can't be sold and if you get rid of it you get no GP in return.
The rule doesn't state that the item purchased with prestige is worth 0gp only when you attempt to sell it, the rule states that the item purchased with prestige is worth 0gp.