What's a good spell to choose for Spell Hex?

[Roberta Yang]

Spell Hex:

You can transform a 1st-level spell into a hex.

Prerequisites: Major hex class feature.

Benefit: Select one 1st-level spell in the class that grants you the major hex class feature. You can learn that spell as a hex, and can use that hex three times per day. This is a spell-like ability. You use your class level in the major-hex-granting class as your caster level for the spell hex. The spell hex uses your hex DC instead of its original spell DC.

If the spell is a touch spell and you miss the creature, you cannot target the creature with that spell hex again for 24 hours. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or take a partial effect from the spell, and the target succeeds at that saving throw, it cannot be affected by the spell hex for 24 hours, even if it is in the area of the spell hex.

The obvious benefit is that it uses your Hex DC, so it could be useful with a first-level spell that would be useful were it not for the save DC becoming trivial (and it not being worth Heightening). Taking Quicken SLA later makes casting it a swift action, which is also nice. Unfortunately, looking at the Witch spell list, there's nothing in particular that I would really want as a hex. Most spells either already have a hex equivalent (Charm Person) or don't allow a saving throw anyhow (Ill Omen) or just wouldn't be very useful at higher levels anyhow.

The most interesting use I can think of would be to play a Samsaran and use it with something stolen from a different spell list (Grease, perhaps?), but even then, I'm not sure if it's worth a feat (or two feats to Quicken) plus the race choice (which has a Con penalty and means missing the human bonus feat). Especially when I could just take Extra Hex instead, since by the time Spell Hex becomes available, so are Major Hexes, which don't have per-day limits and are generally better than first-level spells anyhow.

Are there any decent uses of this feat or is it just a dud?

[Orthos]

Looking at my Witch's spell list, the 1st level spells she uses most would be Delusional Pride and Ear-Piercing Scream. The rest she typically only uses occasionally, has for potion/CWI making, or are Summon spells.

[Serisan]

It's really good with certain spells. I like it with Beguiling Gift for RP-heavy games as it doesn't have the "THIS IS A SPELL" announcement of casting.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Depends on your focus as a witch. There are several 1st level spells that would be awesome as 3x a day ability at that DC.

My top 4 picks are:
Peacebond
Charm Person
Ray of Enfeeblement
Unnatural Lust

First, remember the Charm Hex and charm person are completely different and stack for what you can do. Together you can make ANY legal target helpful to you for the duration and they will do anything (including fight to the death for you) with only a minor investment in diplomacy.
Imagine how quick a dungeon will be if every BBEG you meet suddenly becomes your bestest buddy and slaughters everything in your way. Anything that beats him takes his place as your new buddy after that.
(or be really fun and take 3 of the biggest, nastiest critters you find and send them to clear out the dungeon for you.

There are several combos you can try and don't forget your patron spell list too. Can be very effective taking this feat.

[Lab_Rat]

There aren't many out there that make it worth it.

I had thought of taking silent image (shadow patron) for it. The benefits being a higher disbelief DC (not all that important) and being able to cast it with out components. This last one is a biggy. It's hard to cast am illusion in front of a spell caster who can just spellcraft it and go "Oh, thats fake." Being an SLA solves this and makes silent image a lot better than it already is.

Ear Piercing scream is a good one. Having a scaling Fort save that dazes is worth it.

Another that may be worth it is ray of enfeeblement. Again a scaling Fort save that can be pretty debilitating.

Edit: OMG yes charm person (Thanks Mathwei). Having a charm that scales and lasts for 1 hour per level is just pure win. You also have the benefit that because you are not waving your hands around, burning small objects, and speaking in an odd language. Even if the pass your save they won't suspect you of it.

Now I have a true conundrum. Split Hex at lvl 11 or spell hex - charm person (PFS character so its basically one or the other)

[CalebTGordan]

I took the shadow patron, so that would make Silent Image a viable spell for this hex. That would be a fun hex.

I like the idea of using beguiling gift.

Another suggestion is Sow Thought from the ARG. I have been putting it to good use in my campaign doing all sorts of fun things. I successfully triggered a evil villain monologue with it, and even used it to help someone make a decision in the party's favor. Mixing it with Detect Thoughts is great too, as you can figure out what would be appropriate thoughts to sow ahead of time.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Lab_Rat wrote:

There aren't many out there that make it worth it.

I had thought of taking silent image (shadow patron) for it. The benefits being a higher disbelief DC (not all that important) and being able to cast it with out components. This last one is a biggy. It's hard to cast am illusion in front of a spell caster who can just spellcraft it and go "Oh, thats fake." Being an SLA solves this and makes silent image a lot better than it already is.

Ear Piercing scream is a good one. Having a scaling Fort save that dazes is worth it.

Another that may be worth it is ray of enfeeblement. Again a scaling Fort save that can be pretty debilitating.

Edit: OMG yes charm person (Thanks Mathwei). Having a charm that scales and lasts for 1 hour per level is just pure win. You also have the benefit that because you are not waving your hands around, burning small objects, and speaking in an odd language. Even if the pass your save they won't suspect you of it.

Now I have a true conundrum. Split Hex at lvl 11 or spell hex - charm person (PFS character so its basically one or the other)

Split hex at 11 (or 10th if you are playing a beast bonded witch), you'll get a LOT more out of split hex then the charm-charm combo. ESPECIALLY if you took Scar hex at 8th level.

[Serisan]

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Lab_Rat wrote:

There aren't many out there that make it worth it.

I had thought of taking silent image (shadow patron) for it. The benefits being a higher disbelief DC (not all that important) and being able to cast it with out components. This last one is a biggy. It's hard to cast am illusion in front of a spell caster who can just spellcraft it and go "Oh, thats fake." Being an SLA solves this and makes silent image a lot better than it already is.

Ear Piercing scream is a good one. Having a scaling Fort save that dazes is worth it.

Another that may be worth it is ray of enfeeblement. Again a scaling Fort save that can be pretty debilitating.

Edit: OMG yes charm person (Thanks Mathwei). Having a charm that scales and lasts for 1 hour per level is just pure win. You also have the benefit that because you are not waving your hands around, burning small objects, and speaking in an odd language. Even if the pass your save they won't suspect you of it.

Now I have a true conundrum. Split Hex at lvl 11 or spell hex - charm person (PFS character so its basically one or the other)

Split hex at 11 (or 10th if you are playing a beast bonded witch), you'll get a LOT more out of split hex then the charm-charm combo. ESPECIALLY if you took Scar hex at 8th level.

Scarred turtle in a cage voodoo, eh?

[Mathwei ap Niall]

What can I say, I love my turtles.

[jcompy122]

What about command? The spell BECOMES a hex, correct? Would the duration of the spell be extrended by cackle? Effectively, you can Command: Halt an NPC, BBEG, or etc. then Cackle with a mve action every turn, effectively removing them from the combat entirely.

[I Hate Nickelback]

If silent image isn't normally on the witch spell list, then you can't use it for that feat. No patron spells.

[jcompy122]

jcompy122 wrote:

What about command? The spell BECOMES a hex, correct? Would the duration of the spell be extrended by cackle? Effectively, you can Command: Halt an NPC, BBEG, or etc. then Cackle with a mve action every turn, effectively removing them from the combat entirely.

Never mind. I misread Cackle.

[London Duke]

Necro:

How would well would this feat work with Hex Vulnerability I could see this making Accursed Hex almost obsolete. Hex Vulnerability is normally God-like when combined with an ally and Healing Hex but when you can scale the DC as a hex I think it would be very powerful against enemies as well.

[Imbicatus]

Adhesive Spittle is fantastic for this now. Tanglefoot Bag with a DC that is actually relevant at high level? Hell yes.

[plaidwandering]

agree with Imbicatus, any flying creature less than huge beware!

[London Duke]

That is true. Do you think its stronger than Hex Vulnerability? With Accursed Hex, you probably don't need Spell Hex: Hex Vulnerability.

Would Spell Hex: Adhesive Spittle still have a range of 15ft?

[plaidwandering]

yes it is unfortunately really short, but as a lvl 10+ witch you should be flying yourself )

[London Duke]

What happens if you just Ice Tomb a flying creature? Or Slumber hex? Seems that would be more effective.

[plaidwandering]

This is just giving you the option to hit reflex save instead of fort or will.

[Imbicatus]

plaidwandering wrote:

This is just giving you the option to hit reflex save instead of fort or will.

Yep. and a backup if they make the save against your first try at disabling them via Slumber or Ice Tomb. Also, less things are immune to a tanglefoot back than are immune to sleep or ice tomb.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

Adhesive Spittle is a good spell hex vulnerability is really a better choice.
Hex vulnerability allows you to do something that the devs tried very hard to kill, keeping Fortune on your party for as long as you want.

Hex vulnerability lets you drop a fortune on your party member up to 4 times a day instead of the measly once that it currently does.
That alone makes it awesome but through on extra uses of the healing hex, Major Healing and Ice Tomb/Agony really makes it the best option out there.

[Yuri Twobeards]

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Hex vulnerability lets you drop a fortune on your party member up to 4 times a day instead of the measly once that it currently does.

Wondering how you can use Hex vulnerability to use fortune 4 times/day? Wouldn't it be 2?

[AtLastF0rgot]

Almost thread necromancy, dear Yuri. Depending on mods.

Use your [Hex Spell] Vulnerability on them, and they they are now vulnerable to Hexes more than once... including [Hex Spell] Hex Vulnerability itself. The only thing you lose out on is CL to overcome SR and Saves, neither of which matters for a beneficial Hex since your ally will simply forgo their saves.

Meaning, so long as you keep hitting them with [Hex Spell] Hex Vulnerability and never let it drop, you're good to go for the whole dang day of infinite beneficial hexes.

If it ever DOES drop, just be sure to keep Hex Vulnerability prepared as a 1st Level Spell to get the gravy train rolling again. Downside of course is the low Duration of 1 rd/level, meaning it requires rather frequent refreshing.

Or you could just Cackle non-stop.

[Wiggz]

Would it be worthwhile to use it with Enlarge Person in order to cut down the casting time?