panther claw question

[Lord Thasmudyan]

This a hotly debated question in my group I run IRL. Basically the feat states a monk with panther could get up to there wisdom bonus of AoO in a round. Now reading AoO in combat section it states it has to be a separate trigger action. Which is how I have always understood it. In the case of the monk from my group he is a Snake/Panther style Monk of many styles, so based on the understanding the max this monk could do vs one creature in a given situation is 3 attacks.

First he moves in and provoke an AoO, then get panther retaliatory attack, if the opponent misses snake style triggers and if he hits the snake style AoO, he then gets another one as an immediate action.

does this sound about right or is there something I am missing about Panther Claw?

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

Well, the retaliatory strikes from Panther Style aren't technically "AoOs," but otherwise you are pretty much correct. Panther/Snake is a good combination for this reason.

Just remember that they will only be able to pull this once a round (as the second Snake attack requires an immediate action), and that intelligent opponents will likely realize quickly that attacking the Snake/Panther Monk that is running around is not a terribly good idea.

[Grick]

Lord Thasmudyan wrote:

the feat states a monk with panther could get up to there wisdom bonus of AoO in a round.

Panther Style lets you take a retaliatory unarmed strike when an opponent takes an AoO that you provoked by moving. Panther Claw makes it a free action instead of a swift, with a cap of WisMod.

The retaliatory strikes are not AoOs, and do not count against your normal number of AoOs you can make each round.

Lord Thasmudyan wrote:

First he moves in and provoke an AoO, then get panther retaliatory attack, if the opponent misses snake style triggers and if he hits the snake style AoO, he then gets another one as an immediate action.

Assumption: Monk has Panther Style, Panther Claw, Snake Style, Snake Sidewind, and Snake Fang

1) Monk using both styles provokes an AoO from movement.

2) Opponent takes an AoO against monk.

3) Resolve AoO. If Opponent's AoO is a miss, Snake Fang allows the monk to make an AoO against the enemy (unarmed strike only). If the monk's AoO hits, monk can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against that same enemy. Monk has used 1 AoO for the round.

4) After the AoO(s) is/are resolved, Panther Style and Panther Claw allow you to make a retaliatory unarmed strike as a free action. Monk has used one retaliation for the round.

If the monk has Panther Parry, then step 4 happens before step 2, but it's otherwise the same.

-edit- Also note that if the monk used the Snake Style ability to make a sense motive check as an immediate action, he will not be able to take the extra attack if his Snake Fang hits, since he will have already used his immediate action for the round.

[MacGurcules]

Panther Style retaliations aren't specifically Attacks of Opportunity. However, holding them to a similar standard as AoOs regarding how they're triggered is probably the way it's intended to be used; i.e. prompting a single retaliation for each AoO drawn.

It's worth noting, however, that you could trigger a lot more attacks than just three. Hypothetically, in response to a missed Attack of Opportunity, you could use Snake Fang to make an AoO to do a trip, use Improved Trip to do another AoO, use Vicious Stomp to make another AoO, spend your immediate action to take your second Snake Fang attack, then finally take your retaliatory strike from Panther.

This, of course, requires Combat Reflexes, 14+ Dex, and a bunch of other feats.

[Lord Thasmudyan]

Thanks guys between your responses and other I have seen on the boards this answer it for me :)