Questions about Create Demiplane

[Kiliase]

I have a question about the initial creation of a demiplane using the spells Create Demiplane (Lesser and Greater).

The spell descriptions specifically states "You must be on the Astral or Ethereal Plane or on a plane that has access to one of those planes (such as the Material Plane) to cast this spell.

When you cast the spell, you decide whether the demiplane is within the Astral or the Ethereal Plane."

If the demiplane is within either the Ethereal or Astral Plane, do they take on the qualities of the plane they're based in?

The Ethereal and Astral Planes:

Ethereal Plane
The Ethereal Plane is coexistent with the Material Plane and often other planes as well. The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal Plane, but it appears muted and indistinct; colors blur into each other and edges are fuzzy.

While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the latter is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible, insubstanial, and utterly silent to someone on the Material Plane.

The Ethereal Plane has the following traits:

•No Gravity
•Alterable Morphic: The plane contains little to alter, however.
•Mildly Neutral-Aligned
•Normal Magic: Spells function normally on the Ethereal Plane, though they do not cross into the Material Plane. The only exceptions are spells and spell-like abilities that have the force descriptor and abjuration spells that affect ethereal beings; these can cross from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. Spellcasters on the Material Plane must have some way to detect foes on the Ethereal Plane before targeting them with force-based spells. While it's possible to hit ethereal enemies with a force spell cast on the Material Plane, the reverse isn't possible. No magical attacks cross from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane, including force attacks.

Astral Plane
The Astral Plane is the space between the Inner and Outer Planes, and coterminous with all of the planes. When a character moves through a portal or projects her spirit to a different plane of existence, she travels through the Astral Plane. Even spells that allow instantaneous movement across a plane briefly touch the Astral Plane. The Astral Plane is a great, endless expanse of clear silvery sky, both above and below. Occasional bits of solid matter can be found here, but most of the Astral Plane is an endless, open domain.

The Astral Plane has the following traits:

•Subjective Directional Gravity
•Timeless: Age, hunger, thirst, afflictions (such as diseases, curses, and poisons), and natural healing don't function in the Astral Plane, though they resume functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.
•Mildly Neutral-Aligned
•Enhanced Magic: All spells and spell-like abilities used within the Astral Plane may be employed as if they were improved by the Quicken Spell or Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats. Already quickened spells and spell-like abilities are unaffected, as are spells from magic items. Spells so quickened are still prepared and cast at their unmodified level. As with the Quicken Spell feat, only one quickened spell or spell-like ability can be cast per round.

Obviously, the spell does eventually blossom into letting the effects and more exist (gravity, time, alignment, enhanced magic). However, if you base your demiplane on the astral, will it start as a timeless plane? Will an ethereal demiplane start close enough to the Material Plane to see but not affect it?

Thank you for your wise assistance!

[kantas]

That's a really good question...

I'd love to see an answer about that, because i'm looking to make use of these spells much much later in a campaign i'm in...

I'm going to hazard a guess and say they do not aquire those properties, mainly because the spell doesn't state that they do. Later spells mention giving the plane properties, such as elemental properties, time properties, gravity properties.

The Greater Demiplane spell specifically states that you "add" these properties, where the Astral plane already has some of the properties present (Timeless being one of them)

Create Demiplane, Greater wrote:

Time: By default, time passes at the normal rate in your demiplane. By selecting this feature, you may make your plane have the erratic time, flowing time (half or double normal time), or timeless trait (see Time, GameMastery Guide 185).

using this information we can infer that the plane has no properties when it is initially created, and you must use the more powerful versions of the create demiplane spells to add properties to your new plane.

[Kiliase]

What about the question of interaction between the Ethereal Plane and Material Plane? Essentially, does the demiplane actually behave like the plane it's inside, or does it behave like a separate plane?

[kantas]

I think that it would behave more like a seperate plane...

similar to the lack of adopting the timeless trait of the Astral Plane, we could infer that it does not gain the traits of the plane it is "inside". with regards to the ethereal plane, it would not have the proximity to the material plane.

one could argue that the created demiplane would function similarily to another material plane inside the ethereal plane, in such a way that the ethereal plane would be able to see inside it, but not affect it in any way. but i think that might be stretching it a little bit.

I view it more as a creation of a plane that branches directly from either the ethereal or the astral plane, but does not follow the rules of those planes, because they are their own seperate entity.

but again, i'm speculating based on how i'm interpreting the rules...

In short i think the way the spell operates, is that the created demiplane is it's own entity that branches off of the Astral or Ethereal plane of existence. It does not inherit any properties of the Astral or Ethereal plane, the only properties it gains, are those properties given to it by further castings of create demiplane and greater create demiplane.

[Kiliase]

Good answers! Thank you for your time!

[Barachiel Shina]

Ok so I'm resurrecting this thread since it already exists and no point making a new one with the same title.

My question is if the caster makes the demiplane's time Erratic, does that mean each time they enter in and out of the demiplane, that a percentage is rolled to see how much time has passed outside in the Material Plane?

[Claxon]

Barachiel Shina wrote:

Ok so I'm resurrecting this thread since it already exists and no point making a new one with the same title.

My question is if the caster makes the demiplane's time Erratic, does that mean each time they enter in and out of the demiplane, that a percentage is rolled to see how much time has passed outside in the Material Plane?

Well I would choose to be consistent with when you roll (and I would choose when the caster exits the plane) but essentially yes. You roll each time, because it's erratic. Which means it's not consistent. There's the flowing time trait, which is consistently slower or faster than the material plane. But erratic means it switches back and forth, unpredictably.

[Azothath]

Lesser Create Demiplane & others

as this is a high level spell that needs a lot of descriptive elements, it is going to be subject to considerable GM oversight. It also involves planar travel...

The events going on in the plane when the caster is not there is up to the GM. Like some nearly expired cats they only matter when the player actually checks on them (unless the GM has his own subplot going on). It is very likely that the GM will roll for time rate etc at his discretion as there's no automatic information passed to the caster per the spell (not even locating or finding a creature to eject, so one assumes the caster must find them using normal means to target them for ejection).

Usually there's a well defined access method(spell) to the plane in question. It doesn't displace the plane that it's cast from but adds a new plane next to(coterminous) to the casting plane so that 'ejected' creatures have a defined place to go (note that exact exit location isn't well defined).