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Hey there Pathfinders!
I would like your advice on this new magical item I created. One of my players wrote a backstory where he was on the run from his father's merchant/slave business at the start of the campaign, and I've finally gotten the chance to write up the stats. Any feedback on the stats?
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Ring Of The New Man
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd Slot hand;
Weight —; Price 12,700gp
DESCRIPTION As a standard action the human male wearer of this ring can gain the ability to transform his appearance into that of another man. His single alternate appearance is predefined and conferred by the power of the ring and must be of a human male of within 5 inches in size and within 50 lbs. weight. Head and facial hair color, skin color, eye color, and facial features do not need to be of the same human racial traits. This provides a +20 competence bonus on stealth checks that oppose anyone’s perception that the wearer is really another person. Checks may be modified by circumstance bonus, as the ring does not alter the sound of the wearer’s voice. The ring is only usable once per week, and is subject to a 10% failure due an inherent flaw in the ring’s design ingredients. Spells that polymorph the wearer or diseases that transform the wearer must make a caster level check against the power of the ring. Powerful true seeing spells or mirrors that show true form may also make a caster level check to see the wearer’s true appearance. Only males can wear the ring, and as a standard action may remove the ring to appear as their true self. However, once activated the wearer must wait 1 week prior to using the ring again.
CONSTRUCTION Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, forge ring, disguise self, break enchantment, invisibility; Cost 6350 gp
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No ability to save versus illusion, unless a device or spell is used and makes a CL check. Bonus is up to 20... and perhaps it should read "disguise" check rather than stealth...? Perameters are set for 1/week because its designed for a level 1-3 character with a backstory that necessitates this type of thing. I added the "failure" to allow GMs bandwidth should lycantrhopy or other story reasons may compromise the illusion.
Keep the feedback coming. I'd like to make tweaks as needed to get this right.
Edit: And it probably shouldn't detect as magic either - that's too much a give-away.
Disguising as someone else is Disguise check not Stealth check.
Well, it seems to be similar in many ways to a Hat of Disguise with a few exceptions.
1. It lets you make a stealth check (as opposed to a disguise check) to conceal yourself as another person. Not sure if this is intentional, or just using a different wording.
2. It provides a +20 bonus, instead of +10. Good stuff if you can't invest in the Disguise skill, and really, really need to stay hidden.
3. It costs 12,700g, which is just a little over seven times what a Hat of Disguise costs
4. It's usable 1/week, and has a 10% spell failure chance, and only biological males can use the item.
All told, I think it's a really cool item specific to this particular story - its unreliability and limited use could make for some compelling and tricky choices - do I use my charge for the week? If I need it, will it come through? (I admittedly have a soft spot for tricksy, unreliable magic rings, especially for people on the run from dangerous forces. Can't imagine where that comes from)
Cool story item, but all things being equal, I can't think of any reason why a player would grab that over a Hat of Disguise.
Seems fairly restrictive, only allowing human males to take advantage of it, unless the ring is specifically designed for the runaway PC. Is it?
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Great thoughts killstring. Right on - there isn't anything "optimal" to this.
1. I think that was oversight. Should probably read "disguise" but as I'm willing to keep the price high, maybe it could read "disguise" or "stealth", allowing the ring to retain some value to an intrepid rogue who's stealth score grows with the character?
2. yeah, +20 seems right, given that generally speaking I want the player to feel secure that the New Man appearance is sound.
3. Accounting for getting the nuanced features right...but I need feedback on value/cost so its commensurate with its features, please
4. So far, in playtesting, that 1/week a fail chance has been far more compelling than a hat that always works. I also like the "fugitive" tone that the biological human male restriction suggests.
Keep the feedback coming, and I'll keep revising until we all agree on the detail. Much appreciated!
Pax
Edit: @Harrison - yes its designed for the runaway PC, yet I'd like your help building my skill as GM to whip this up into a formal Pathfinder-ready item description. Very much appreciated.
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I'd personally just use the Hat of Disguise. But, I am typically not a fan of giving a level 1 or 2 PC something worth that much money. The intention is good but I always assume the PCs will eventually sell the item which in this case would be worth a pretty copper piece.
Even if you have to tweak the hat so that it says "In addition to granting the above capabilities, this hat has the ability to once a week grant..." and fill that in with the +20 Disguise with the failure chance. Keep the price low...maybe add like 1,000g cost to the Hat of Disguise.
The main problem I see is that it is "usable 1/week" but doesn't give a duration, is that intentional or an oversight? I.E. can you only use it once/week but it can stay up all week as long as you don't end the effects? And does that week start over at the becoming of the transformation or end? Like if I use the power to change form and keep that form for 10 days can I deactivate the power and two min. Later (since its been over a week that I activated the power already) use it again.
I have to throw my vote into the "too expensive, circumstantial (has to be male human), and unreliable" pile. If purchasing something like this I would easily buy a hat of disguise and something to boost cha. Over the ring, and if given the ring I would sell it and buy a hat of disguise. Player excitement aside, looking at these two items side by side why would a character choose this ring over the other choice?
Eh, I'd worry less about that. Selling the ring could be more trouble than it's worth - after all, an item is only worth what the market will pay for it. Just because it's expensive to make doesn't mean that it will necessarily sell for full theoretical value.
And if it does, it's probably because your buyer is looking for the character, not the ring. Maybe I'm letting my Shadowrun sneak into my Pathfinder, but I'd be really suspicious of anybody who'd pay me market price for that particular ring.
Eh, I'd worry less about that. Selling the ring could be more trouble than it's worth - after all, an item is only worth what the market will pay for it. Just because it's expensive to make doesn't mean that it will necessarily sell for full theoretical value.
And if it does, it's probably because your buyer is looking for the character, not the ring. Maybe I'm letting my Shadowrun sneak into my Pathfinder, but I'd be really suspicious of anybody who'd pay me market price for that particular ring.
Any time you play around with market value of an item you're also playing around with the wealth by level. If you can't expect a shop to pay market value or half market value on things you sell then why would items you buy be at market value?
It seems a little fussy, and since you're going to need at least a 12th level caster to do Forge Ring, I'd think they'd just decide to skip the Disguise Self and go to Alter Self instead, since there are too many things that foil illusions but not as many to see through transformations.
I made a similar ring once which was the "Ring of the Pretender" which was forged to let conspirators disguise themselves as a particular king. Of course, the virtue/flaw of the whole thing was that it transformed the wearer into the form of a particular young man and kept them in that form so long as it was worn, meaning that the king didn't age and the jig was up because of that. But after the conspirators were disposed of, the ring stayed around. Are you old and want to wear the body of a young man? This ring will do that. The downside is you exactly resemble a long-dead and somewhat infamous king.
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Joegoat - good feedback about the duration. Once activated it stays on indefinately until taken off. Thus a PC could live out their days as a new man. Once the PC takes off the ring, it can only be activated 1/week. I will try to work this into the description.
@Killstring - agree with you about looking for the character.
Topic of selling/buying: The ring might sell for 1/2 it's price in my campaigns, but the player would need to find the right buyer. By the time that happens, the PC will be of an appropriate level where 6k or less is a reasonable offer to unload the ring.
As for Hat of Disguise: Please do not fail to miss the point... it's not about just using a hat of disguise for sake of having it done:
>I'm checking my design ability and you're helping me build skill
>Any GM should feel free to make adventure-specific treasure, including gimps, and sucky features - that's all part of the game.
>There isn't any question of "buying a hat of disguise" ... there isn't one available in any of the nearby cities. So, comparison shopping with an eye toward optimization isn't the kind of anachronism that exists in my games. No worries there.
Please keep the feedback coming. I'll revise and post again.
What I've heard so far: somewhat too expensive, caster level seems right? Description of duration should be added. +20 bonus is okay, might shift to disguise, or as a feature of the ring use stealth score if higher. The biology requirement isn't liked.
Any time you play around with market value of an item you're also playing around with the wealth by level. If you can't expect a shop to pay market value or half market value on things you sell then why would items you buy be at market value?Eh, I'd worry less about that. Selling the ring could be more trouble than it's worth - after all, an item is only worth what the market will pay for it. Just because it's expensive to make doesn't mean that it will necessarily sell for full theoretical value.
And if it does, it's probably because your buyer is looking for the character, not the ring. Maybe I'm letting my Shadowrun sneak into my Pathfinder, but I'd be really suspicious of anybody who'd pay me market price for that particular ring.
This is an entirely reasonable point. There are two reasons why I came to this conclusion.
1. The group I play with has quite a few MBA's in it, and certain economic models (most often Game Theory, but plenty of others) are common conversational points. As such, economies of supply & demand show up in pretty much every game we play. I seem to recall there being guidelines for this in Golarion - which neighborhoods of Absolom have markups, etc.
2. With custom - perhaps even one-of-a-kind - items, I posit that it wouldn't be likely to either fit within the existing fixed economic models, nor disrupt WBL by not having a fixed market value.
After all, if the character isn't paying for the thing in the first place, it's unlikely to completely throw off the game's economy. Of course, everyone should feel free to do what they find makes sense, and contributes to an enjoyable game. If fixed market rates and strict adherence to WBL make your life easier and more fun, then you should use them :)
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Made some changes based on feedback. Please have a look and comment. I removed the human restriction to wear the ring, but kept the human "new man" appearance. I kept the caster level at 3rd, but reduced the costs greatly to craft and to buy. I updated the description to suggest more flexibility of height and weight (higher or lower). I kept the +20 bonus but added a -4 penalty to true seeing and magical mirrors, keeping the ring's relevance even when confronted by higher level NPCs or magical devices. I kept the 10% failure to account for lowered costs, but also because this type of flavor is interesting. I changed the spells needed to craft by removing diguise self in favor of alter self.
Please add any feedback! I appreciate it. This is almost done, and its made better with all of your feedback. Thanks
Ring Of The New Man
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd Slot hand;
Weight —; Price 6,400 gp
DESCRIPTION As a standard action the wearer of this ring can gain the ability to transform his appearance into that of another man. The new man's appearance is predefined during the crafting of the ring and and must be of a human male of within 5 inches of 6" tall, and within 25 lbs. weight of 180lbs either more or less. The ring provides a +20 competence bonus on diguise checks and may receive circumstance bonuses if the observer recognizes the sound of the wearers voice, mannerisms, etc., since the ring does not alter the sound of the wearer’s voice. Removing the ring and death instantly remove the illusion.
The ring may be used once per week to transform into the new man, yet due to an inherent flaw in the ring’s design ingredients is subject to a 10% failure. Spells that polymorph the wearer, or diseases that transform the wearer, may make a caster level check to disrupt the illusion. True seeing spells or enchanted mirrors that show true form receive a -4 to its caster level check to see the wearer’s true appearance.
CONSTRUCTION Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, forge ring, alter self, break enchantment; Cost 3200 gp
It takes up a ring slot, not a hand slot.
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Revised.
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... any additional feedback to meet any design needs? Thx.
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Ring Of The New Man
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd Slot ring;
Weight —; Price 6,400 gp
DESCRIPTION As a standard action the wearer of this ring can gain the ability to transform his appearance into that of another man. The new man's appearance is predefined during the crafting of the ring and and must be of a human male of within 5 inches of 6" tall, and within 25 lbs. weight of 180lbs either more or less. The ring provides a +20 competence bonus on diguise checks and may receive circumstance bonuses if the observer recognizes the sound of the wearers voice, mannerisms, etc., since the ring does not alter the sound of the wearer’s voice. Removing the ring and death instantly remove the illusion.
The ring may be used once per week to transform into the new man, yet due to an inherent flaw in the ring’s design ingredients is subject to a 10% failure. Spells that polymorph the wearer, or diseases that transform the wearer, may make a caster level check to disrupt the illusion. True seeing spells or enchanted mirrors that show true form receive a -4 to its caster level check to see the wearer’s true appearance.
CONSTRUCTION Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, forge ring, alter self, break enchantment; Cost 3200 gp