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Hello and thanks for the comments. Thanks for attending the first Con this group has been able to volunteer and partacipate in. We are a 'new' group of players and GM's in this region, some getting their 'first shot' at GMing. Rest assured, GM quality is a top priority for me and we are always looking for veteran talent to get involved.
Constructive critism is always welcome and I continually strive for improvement.
I was there at SNAFU during the games your talking about. In your first example, there were 6 PC's and for what ever reason (I'm not sure) the wizard was odd man out of the wagon. The guy playing was not a 14 yr old kid. He is a college student and a very fun player. He has played multiple sessions and has a level 2 or 3 character. He had 5 Fortitude saves, wich he admits he failed every one. The rookie GM, did the right thing. He stopped the game, and asked me what to do. I confirmed the bad luck rolls and confirmimed that the character was indeed dead.
Having said all that. We are not promoting, rewarding, or encouraging Steps 1 or on any level, malicious Game Mastering. I strive for the opposite. All inclusive gaming with the only thing required being a good attitude. Structure and framework are some of the Society's attraction. So, while I'll 'fudge' to avoid killing a brand new player, freezing to death is also a very real possibility. I hope you continue to enjoy PFS in the region and please don't be shy about approaching with issues or joining the local hub of PFS scheduling. http://www.meetup.com/Reno-RPG-and-Board-Gamers-Club/ Thanks again for the input, now..."Roll for Initiative!"
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I would suggest being very, VERY, careful with how you approach this. Sometimes it is a malicious GM but oftentimes it's just someone who is volunteering his or her time and isn't that familiar with the rules. Especially in relatively new groups the GM may be just the one (or two, or three) person who was willing to step up despite lack of experience.
Also be sure you know the GM is incorrect. Quite often the players aren't 100% on the rules either. Especially when it's "So Stacie was just telling me about this game she played in two weeks ago..." In your example 2:
If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
But no, it can't swallow whole immediately. The GM was probably confusing constrict and swallow whole.
1) If it's not affecting the game negatively let it slide, then talk to the GM after the session. Most will be happy to know the correct way of doing something.
2) If it's creating a huge imbalance in favor of the baddies (or the players) tell the GM immediately. If he or she disagrees, quietly find the correct citation. Most will fix it on the spot.
3) If something causes a character's death, look it up before the session ends. I have NEVER seen a GM refuse to correct something that resulted in a player death if it is clearly a big rules error that is pointed out before chronicles are finished.
4) If a GM (in PFS) refuses to abide by a rule because they don't like it or arbitrarily makes things up, then and only then do I go to the event organizer or VC.
P.S. Generally if I kill a player while GMing I hand the page of the scenario with what killed them to the player once I'm done with it if they have the least concern. They can satisfy themselves that the rules were followed.
edit: ninja'd by the VC :)
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He had 5 Fortitude saves, wich he admits he failed every one. The rookie GM, did the right thing. He stopped the game, and asked me what to do. I confirmed the bad luck rolls and confirmimed that the character was indeed dead.
Having said all that. We are not promoting, rewarding, or encouraging Steps 1 or on any level, malicious Game Mastering.
So there isn't a wagon in Shades of Ice like the original poster thought, but your mention of "Steps 1" plus a lot of circumstantial evidence (like a wagon with limited space) makes me think this was First Steps III. The GM was 100% in the right that the wagon only holds 5 medium creatures and someone had to stay outside. To this, the OP was being unfair--the GM followed the scenario in that regard.
However, even if the wizard failed all 5 Fortitude saves (and if it's FS3, there's only actually 4 Fortitude saves, not 5), it's hard to believe that the wizard died. Five consecutive failures mean 5 times that you roll 1d6 nonlethal damage (switching to lethalif the wizard falls unconscious from the nonlethal). If the Wizard had even 12 Con, it would also require near-maximum rolls on those d6 to get a kill (and it would be physically impossible to have killed the wizard if there were only 4 saves). I'm assuming the GM may have applied the damage directly to the wizard's health right away instead of doing nonlethal first?
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Here is the deal. He was playing the pregen wizard. It was First steps #3. He faied all 4 saves epic style while wearing gear from within the wagon and rolled near max damamge (23). It killed him. He was not asked to leave the table. He was not dejected. The title to this thread contains the word 'advice'. Here's some. Talk to the people runnining the event. I was there. The entire 'crew' was all about promoting the fun all-inclusive nature of the Society. Any concerns would have been handeled on the spot and many were. The original poster was in 'earshot' of all this 'straight up murder' while his personal GM experiences have been "fantastic". Make no mistake, mistakes have been made and will be made again, just know, this VC is dedicated to quality improvement wherever it can be found.
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The frozen wizard is all on the party - why in the world would they leave one player outside all night? Why not rotate shifts just like on watch? So everyone may take some damage, but no one is overly exposed for the duration. If it was new players I might as a GM ask if they're setting a watch to nudge them in that direction, but if they're experienced players they're on their own.
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Here is the deal. He was playing the pregen wizard. It was First steps #3. He faied all 4 saves epic style while wearing gear from within the wagon and rolled near max damamge (23). It killed him. He was not asked to leave the table. He was not dejected. The title to this thread contains the word 'advice'. Here's some. Talk to the people runnining the event. I was there. The entire 'crew' was all about promoting the fun all-inclusive nature of the Society. Any concerns would have been handeled on the spot and many were. The original poster was in 'earshot' of all this 'straight up murder' while his personal GM experiences have been "fantastic". Make no mistake, mistakes have been made and will be made again, just know, this VC is dedicated to quality improvement wherever it can be found.
23/24? Yikes! That was unlucky. Fortunately, it takes 29 damage to kill pregen Ezren from that cold wagon (remember--nonlethal 8 damage first, then it goes to lethal), so the good news here is that the player of pregen Ezren can get his cold damage death reversed, as it only occurred in error. From your description, this was not a killer GM at all, so I'm sure both the GM and the player will be happy about it.
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Also remember that once you hit 0 hit points with nonlethal, the lethal doesn't start taking them negative.
Lethal and nonlethal damage are always done on two separate damage tracks.
So he'd have to take 8 damage non lethal before it becomes lethal.
Then take 8 damage lethal before he hits 0.
Then take 10 more damage before death.
That's 26 damage.
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Also remember that once you hit 0 hit points with nonlethal, the lethal doesn't start taking them negative.
Lethal and nonlethal damage are always done on two separate damage tracks.
So he'd have to take 8 damage non lethal before it becomes lethal.
Then take 8 damage lethal before he hits 0.
Then take 10 more damage before death.
That's 26 damage.
29 because pregen Ezren has 13 Con, but yeah.
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Got it! Thanks for the support guys. Still learning the ropes for sure. Add a 'complete' understanding of nonleathal to the list of facts I am NOW an expert at. *smiles* Clearly the buck stops here on the wizardpop incident, my bad. Everybody will be happy to hear the good news. Here is my overall point I'd like to make. While this was happening at the event, the table it was happening at was abuzz with excitment & laughter. The epic fails and max damage rolls were met with cheers and groans. The guy playing the Wizard was in costume, laughing his funny-ass wizard laugh and having fun! He has played multiple more times after this happened and I hope to enjoy his company in the future. Therefore I disagrre with the whole 'vibe' the original post was trying to convey and will always strive for fun and fairness.
Now...."Roll for Initiative!"
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I will say this. I've had two GMs (with 100+tables played/GMed). I've had two horrible GMs. One I believe has untreated Aspergers. He now only GMs at one store and most people in the community avoid that store. While I wish I could help him, I know a lot of people have tried.
The other, I felt was simply a jerk. I know some people agreed. I'll just say I don't see them GMing much anymore.
I on the other hand, sucked as a GM when I started. I didn't understand the rules very well and in the past, the rules about not altering stats were played more fast and loose. Thing is, I got better.
The point is, bad GMs tend to go away or get better.
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I will say this. I've had two GMs (with 100+tables played/GMed). I've had two horrible GMs. One I believe has untreated Aspergers. He now only GMs at one store and most people in the community avoid that store. While I wish I could help him, I know a lot of people have tried.
The other, I felt was simply a jerk. I know some people agreed. I'll just say I don't see them GMing much anymore.
I on the other hand, sucked as a GM when I started. I didn't understand the rules very well and in the past, the rules about not altering stats were played more fast and loose. Thing is, I got better.
The point is, bad GMs tend to go away or get better.
Luckily for me I'm perfect at everything and have never made a mistake*, but if I did make a mistake, I would attempt to learn from it.
Seriously though. Characters die, sometimes it's due to the GM not knowing a rule. Grappling at reach and pulling+swallow whole, also the full rules on non-lethal damage don't come up very often, honestly. If you notice that a GM is doing things "wrong" say "actually I'm pretty sure it works like this" be friendly about it, nobody (besides me*) has perfect recall for all rules in all of pathfinder.
*I'm completely full of it, but I'm joking :D.
Preparation time is a factor, looking up special rules, weather, non-lethal damage, Grappling at reach, swallow hole, ect can all be done in prep so you can know all the rules for the adventure :D. However when you get to conventions and you're asked to pick up and run a table, this can get sketchier.
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The original accusation sounded so absurd, especially since the pre gen has no cold weather outfit that I wanted to simultaneously blast the GM for doing this and also wanted to do it myself as a GM _just_ for the laugh of how cruel it sounded.
At the same time, I could not for the life of me understand why in the world the player would stay out after the 2nd or 3rd fail. At least not unless the player thought it would be funny for the survivors to wake up the next day to find him frozen to death. Come to think of it, that would be funny, think i will volunteer for such next time i replay it just for the laugh. after telling the judge before hand and getting an ok that it was just a joke and the pc could live when we explained the real math. I mean what the hell. If I was truly fearful I was going to freeze to death and they did not let me in, I would either attack the cart and try to ruin it's protection for the rest or set it on fire.
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*Re-posted from my local wbsite*
Hello Fellow Pathfinder. I wanted to start a thread for suggestions about areas of improvement in the local Pathfinder Society. Let me start with some GM tips and suggestions.
First. GMing is a volunteer position and fully appreciated, however it also carries a great deal of responsibility. Players invest a lot of time and emotion into their characters, as we all know, so the handling of their 'reality' is a difficult job sometimes. I would hope we can keep all criticism constructive and avoid alienating anybody that is stepping up to help. On the other hand, being a great GM requires the ability to continually improve while manitaining a 'thick skin' to less than polite rules-lawyering.
The PFS has framework and structure, it is for me, one of the best things about it. Maintaining the structure with consistency of improvement is a high priority for me. Please, do not hesitate in providing feedback and suggestions. My door is always open as they say.
Now, it has been brought to my attention that some glaring flaws have appeared in this early stage, of this local chapter, of the PFS. All the details can be discovered by participating in the 'messageboards' on Paizo.com, as it is clear some of you have already posted there *smiles*. Mistakes have been made in some character deaths and let it be known the buck stops here, with me. If one of your characters met their demise and you felt the GM had been malicious or ignorant of the rules, please lets talk about it and get it resolved. Deaths can be reversed in some cases. Malicious Game Mastering will not be tolerated, and I truly hope nobody has been a victim of it.
To current and hopeful GM's. Please prepare. Read your Scenario twice minimum, and make sure it is the current version. Study any unfamiliar spells, feats, or rarely used rules. Have a solid understanding of skill usage, combat maneuvers and magic use. Own a Core Rulebook and bring it to your game. Be nice. Introduce yourself. Don't form emotional attachments to the bad-guys. Strive for improvement. Keep a good attitude. Most importantly, you are not alone. It is not your singular responsibility to 'entertain' a table full of grumps, you are a player too and get to have fun. Everybody is responsible for the 'vibe' of the table they are sitting at, lets keep it a fun 'vibe'. That my goal!