RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If he was wielding a mace, he cannot automatically pick up the weapon dropped.
Check your rules quote again: it doesn't say if you disarm while you don't have a weapon, it says if you don't use a weapon. So if he chooses to reach out with his empty hand, thereby foregoing any weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus, etc that's tied to a weapon, then yes, he gets the bow.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Sorry, kinevon. One of my regular players just looked this up this week, and I confirmed: in PF RPG, gauntlets are not treated as weapons; your punches are skill considered unarmed attacks. Spiked gauntlets are treated as weapons.
Sean K Reynolds says that all glove-style weapons (including ordinary gauntlets) are supposed to be treated as light weapons and really shouldn't ever be referencing or interacting with unarmed strikes at all - they're just plain weapons, like any other.
Not that you'll find that reflected in a printed product, that I'm aware of...
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If he was wielding a mace, he cannot automatically pick up the weapon dropped.Check your rules quote again: it doesn't say if you disarm while you don't have a weapon, it says if you don't use a weapon. So if he chooses to reach out with his empty hand, thereby foregoing any weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus, etc that's tied to a weapon, then yes, he gets the bow.
So, nothing in his other hand, no shield or anything? Hand needs to be empty to grab the bow.
Off-turn, so no free action available to drop anything.
Sorry. Had some issues with a couple of local GMs. One cheated. Badly. Got himself banned as a player from most of the other GMs at the game store I run at, since he cheated on both sides of the screen. That left a bad taste in my mouth.
Another local GM did at least one TPK by mis-reading rules and mis-running a scenario, and an NPC's abilities. Meh. Maybe someday we'll have enough higher level PCs available to let me run the scenario and see what it goes like without the GM putting false pressure on the players to move on to the next encounter without letting them search the area they were in, and finding the scenario-provided materials to rectify some of the party members' incapacity.
Then again, I am fairly sure he has been mis-using his staff Magus's abilities, and taking too many attacks in a turn. Then again, he misses even with the touch attack a lot, and that PC keeps winding up in melee without the AC or HP to support being where he is.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The hypothetical dialogue presented mentioned a mace, but didn't mention a shield. Yeah, they'd need a free hand to grab the weapon.
I actually did this recently - a prone NPC monk AoO-disarmed the cocky archer (go-go natural 20!) and yoinked that bow right out of his hands. Of course, the player was smart so he had a backup weapon and it all worked out. But it was still hilarious. ;)
EDIT: Note that I didn't then have him run off with it or break it or anything; he just took the opportunity to turn the archer into a melee guy because the NPC was a melee guy and wanted his best chance at winning (which was still a pitifully small chance, but whatever).
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The NPC had a mace and an empty hand.
And breastplates do not have gauntlets by default.
Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.
The character had a backup sword. However, the majority of the character's wealth was tied up into their +1 Masterwork STR 16 Longbow...and the majority of the character's feat investments were tied into it. They did eventually recover it; I'm not that much of a jerk. :)
It was particularly funny when the character's backup weapon was disarmed and taken from them in the same fight. Yes, the attacker drew an AoO...which missed.
One thing I think that is worth mentioning in a guide for new 1st level players: If you aren't sure what to play, remember that you can always try playing one of the pre-generated characters that are available to use. In most sessions I've seen the basic four (Ezren the Wizard, Kyra the Cleric, Merisiel the Rogue, and Valeros the Fighter) were available, but technically all the iconic characters from the NPC codex are allowed at 1st level. You can even wait to see what others are bringing to the table before you choose.
The pregenerated characters are not especially great, but then again, if they die you haven't really lost anything. If you still aren't sure which one to choose, I would go with Kyra, as she has decent low level healing with her channels, and your party will appreciate it.
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Probably right about the CHakram.
Nonetheless i advertise weapon cords! Cheap weapon savers that should be on every weapon to not get disarmed.
Also, Tribal Scars from people of the north is a pretty good feat giving +6hp and some skill or save boni. Seem to me a better start than toughness.
I have to say, after people of the north fitting with reign of winter, it would be nice and fair to have people of the south and a southern AP. Beware i´m not talking of stuff like south U.S. or something. More about southern Golarion or myths from south earth or even nordic myths about the south like the firelands and fire giants etc.
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Cestus should be ok, it´s really light and not hindering. Spiked gauntlet does look strange though. Anyway, a weapon cord does the same easier and is cheaper (and lighter) i think, also it´s less hindering.
Actually, if I see a weapon cord on a bow, I grapple... by disarming the bow.
I now have a nice, long stick that is tied to your arm. Anything you do to get it back will probably damage or break the bow.
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Cestus should be ok, it´s really light and not hindering. Spiked gauntlet does look strange though. Anyway, a weapon cord does the same easier and is cheaper (and lighter) i think, also it´s less hindering.Actually, if I see a weapon cord on a bow, I grapple... by disarming the bow.
I now have a nice, long stick that is tied to your arm. Anything you do to get it back will probably damage or break the bow.
I'm pretty sure that is not how either grapple or disarm works. In a home game thats a great way to dick with your players but I can't see it flying in PFS.
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Weapon cord is a very cheap way to devalue some disarm feats. Normaly you don´t have it in your hand if you disarm or grapple. Disarm makes things fall to the floor in the same square, with some feats maybe in other squares. And you can´t grapple weapons, only the persons. Even steal maneuver is not possible anymore.
When you disarm something secured with a weapon cord, it can be retrieved as a free action.
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Weapon cord is a very cheap way to devalue some disarm feats. Normaly you don´t have it in your hand if you disarm or grapple. Disarm makes things fall to the floor in the same square, with some feats maybe in other squares. And you can´t grapple weapons, only the persons. Even steal maneuver is not possible anymore.
When you disarm something secured with a weapon cord, it can be retrieved as a free action.
If I am disarming a bow, I'm doing so with an empty hand. You aren't doing an AoO with it - you don't threaten. You might, if you have a cestus, threaten, but, gee, I'm not terribly afraid of a D3 + 1/2 STR damage on a cestus wielded by someone who uses a bow as their primary weapon.
If the person doing the disarm has an empty hand, they end up with the weapon. It does not end up on the ground.
So, I end up with your bow, in my hand, tied to your arm. Do have fun.
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Weapon cord is a very cheap way to devalue some disarm feats. Normaly you don´t have it in your hand if you disarm or grapple. Disarm makes things fall to the floor in the same square, with some feats maybe in other squares. And you can´t grapple weapons, only the persons. Even steal maneuver is not possible anymore.
When you disarm something secured with a weapon cord, it can be retrieved as a free action.
If I am disarming a bow, I'm doing so with an empty hand. You aren't doing an AoO with it - you don't threaten. You might, if you have a cestus, threaten, but, gee, I'm not terribly afraid of a D3 + 1/2 STR damage on a cestus wielded by someone who uses a bow as their primary weapon.
If the person doing the disarm has an empty hand, they end up with the weapon. It does not end up on the ground.
So, I end up with your bow, in my hand, tied to your arm. Do have fun.
But by RAW all that happens is that I get the bow back from the weapon cord, no free grapples, no chance to damage the bow, none of the crap you seem to think the enemy can take for free based on just a disarm.
This sort of thing is the result of not taking the rules for the abstraction they are. It is just like trying to cast lightning bolt at the water to electrocute everyone standing in it or things like that. Very cinematic and sometimes appropriate in a home game, but not ok in PFS.
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bolding is mine. This is a house rule my son runs in his game. Do you have any PFS rulings to support this? Or do you not enforce it at Society tables?If they have a weapon cord, you sunder. :)
I would also not allow someone to wield both a cestus and bow at the same time for the purpose of things like attacks of opportunity. If you've just full-attacked with your bow, you don't get to use the cestus this round.
Check out Mark's comments regarding spiked armour and a two-handed reach weapon. A bow is two-handed to wield, so I believe my ruling to be valid.
EDIT: Linky.
If you can't threaten with armour spikes while using a two-handed reach weapon, then you don't threaten with a cestus while using a two-handed ranged weapon.
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This was, legitimately, a very good guide and I seriously believe every player should be required to read it before stepping into a Pathfinder Society event.
As a GM, I've had to deal with one group in particular who decides to simply opt more for a brute force tactic. Intimidation has been rolled more times than Perception and saves combined, and it has caused me to become upset with the group. I do not like having to write out that all my characters are going to pretty much respond to only Intimidation checks, and it gets boring when that happens. My players have been told that I love when Mr. Murphy gets involved, and if they are vague about descriptions of actions, I will screw with them. My best friend and I have played Dungeons and Dragons for ten years together, and he and I have read a lot of comics around the concept. I was surprised when during one of my campaigns he actually said, "I'm readying an action to trip the first person that comes near me." I asked him it I heard him correctly and if he wanted to reword it. He said no, he was happy with it. The healer went to run past him and my friend could trip him. I made my friend's character attempt to trip the cleric (thankfully he failed). The group was unhappy with that, but my friend supported my decision (we both read Order of the Stick, and he knew what he did wrong).
I have pushed for more diplomatic play between my players, as well as smarter play. I think communication is huge for players, but they don't get that many times.
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Weapon cord is a very cheap way to devalue some disarm feats. Normaly you don´t have it in your hand if you disarm or grapple. Disarm makes things fall to the floor in the same square, with some feats maybe in other squares. And you can´t grapple weapons, only the persons. Even steal maneuver is not possible anymore.
When you disarm something secured with a weapon cord, it can be retrieved as a free action.
If I am disarming a bow, I'm doing so with an empty hand. You aren't doing an AoO with it - you don't threaten. You might, if you have a cestus, threaten, but, gee, I'm not terribly afraid of a D3 + 1/2 STR damage on a cestus wielded by someone who uses a bow as their primary weapon.
If the person doing the disarm has an empty hand, they end up with the weapon. It does not end up on the ground.
So, I end up with your bow, in my hand, tied to your arm. Do have fun.
But by RAW all that happens is that I get the bow back from the weapon cord, no free grapples, no chance to damage the bow, none of the crap you seem to think the enemy can take for free based on just a disarm.
This sort of thing is the result of not taking the rules for the abstraction they are. It is just like trying to cast lightning bolt at the water to electrocute everyone standing in it or things like that. Very cinematic and sometimes appropriate in a home game, but not ok in PFS.
Actually by RAW all a weapon cord does is keep it from moving more than 2 feet away from you (cord is 2' long) and let you pick it up as a swift action ON YOUR TURN. A weapon cord does NOT allow you to pick it up as soon as it drops (that would be an immediate action), you have to wait until your turn.
So a disarm maneuver by an unarmed enemy can certainly allow him to pick up your weapon after a successful disarm as he can do it automatically as part of the action:
Disarm
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If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
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Weapon cord is a very cheap way to devalue some disarm feats. Normaly you don´t have it in your hand if you disarm or grapple. Disarm makes things fall to the floor in the same square, with some feats maybe in other squares. And you can´t grapple weapons, only the persons. Even steal maneuver is not possible anymore.
When you disarm something secured with a weapon cord, it can be retrieved as a free action.
If I am disarming a bow, I'm doing so with an empty hand. You aren't doing an AoO with it - you don't threaten. You might, if you have a cestus, threaten, but, gee, I'm not terribly afraid of a D3 + 1/2 STR damage on a cestus wielded by someone who uses a bow as their primary weapon.
If the person doing the disarm has an empty hand, they end up with the weapon. It does not end up on the ground.
So, I end up with your bow, in my hand, tied to your arm. Do have fun.
But by RAW all that happens is that I get the bow back from the weapon cord, no free grapples, no chance to damage the bow, none of the crap you seem to think the enemy can take for free based on just a disarm.
This sort of thing is the result of not taking the rules for the abstraction they are. It is just like trying to cast lightning bolt at the water to electrocute everyone standing in it or things like that. Very cinematic and sometimes appropriate in a home game, but not ok in PFS.
Actually by RAW all a weapon cord does is keep it from moving more than 2 feet away from you (cord is 2' long) and let you pick it up as a swift action ON YOUR TURN. A weapon cord does NOT allow you to pick it up as soon as it drops (that would be an immediate action), you have to wait until your turn.
So a disarm maneuver by an unarmed enemy can certainly allow him to pick up your weapon after a successful disarm as he can do it automatically as part of the action:
Disarm
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If your attack is successful, your target drops one...
My point was that the disarmer does not get a free grapple or anything out of the disarm attempt by RAW, even if there is a weapon cord involved. You can just disarm it right back on your turn, possibly as a swift action due to the cord.
By logic on the other hand, yea, there should probably be str checks or a grapple involved, but this is the PFS boards so the DM can't just make s&#& up.
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No free grapple, but he's now holding your bow, which would be a combat maneuver to disarm him on your turn. The swift action is to recover it, not to disarm him. I would not call trying to take back the bow from someone who is holding it a recovery as it is now opposed rather than lying on the ground.
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Now, what happens if the person who disarms your bow into their empty hand(s) from you does this:
Disarm (Standard action)
Move and/or Move while Flying...
Are you dragged along by your bow and weapon lanyard?
Worse yet - assume you're foolish enough to shoot next to someone and they do their AoO as a disarm to take it from you...now they get a double move.
Do they get to drag you around the battlefield?
(Hint: Don't stand next to enemies when using a bow or crossbow.)
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Now, what happens if the person who disarms your bow into their empty hand(s) from you does this:
Disarm (Standard action)
Move and/or Move while Flying...Are you dragged along by your bow and weapon lanyard?
The disarmer can't take a move action to move away from you, because he's attached to you (by his own volition). He can take some sort of action to resolve this, either a standard action to make a combat maneuver to drag you (which, in this first case, he doesn't have), a move action solely to break the weapon cord, or a free action to give up his idea and let go of the weapon.
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Except that the rule on weapon cords very specifically states that it's a move action by the person the cord is attached to to cut it.
It does NOT specifically forbid someone else from dragging you by your corded weapon.
Now, if we're playing by common sense? We say the cord probably can't sustain more than about 40 or 50 lbs of tensile force, which would be overkill for a tether for your sword. But, as has been pointed out - this is Pathfinder, and attempting to play with common sense as opposed to Rules as Written will only cause you to weep.
Rules as Written, it seriously looks like I could double move and drag the person with me until they spent THEIR move action (or full round action) cutting or untying the cord.
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Except that the rule on weapon cords very specifically states that it's a move action by the person the cord is attached to to cut it.
It does NOT specifically forbid someone else from dragging you by your corded weapon.
The rule on weapon cords doesn't mention it one way or another. The rule on dragging people around states that it's a standard action.
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Except that the rule on weapon cords very specifically states that it's a move action by the person the cord is attached to to cut it.
It does NOT specifically forbid someone else from dragging you by your corded weapon.
Now, if we're playing by common sense? We say the cord probably can't sustain more than about 40 or 50 lbs of tensile force, which would be overkill for a tether for your sword. But, as has been pointed out - this is Pathfinder, and attempting to play with common sense as opposed to Rules as Written will only cause you to weep.
Rules as Written, it seriously looks like I could double move and drag the person with me until they spent THEIR move action (or full round action) cutting or untying the cord.
My main hangup with your assertions is that it gives the disarmer up to a double move of a free drag effect based on a single disarm check. This is cinematic and logical in a way, but this is a situation where RAW is abstracted. Dragging and Repositioning enemies is designed to happen as a standard action in intervals of five or maybe ten feet. Suddenly having your speed in dragging as a move action rationalized with a completely different combat maneuver is far, far outside the balance of the rules both RAW and any sane RAI. Also drag and reposition can get very different modifiers than disarm as a combat maneuver, so effectively sneaking one in for the other is not ok.
The cinematic effect you mentioned of yanking someone around by thier weapon cord should be mechanically done by a disarm on one turn and then a drag maneuver on your next turn, not by effectively granting yourself a bunch of spurious extra effects. If your situation happened at my table nither creature would be going anywhere without a combat maneuver on their turn with a chance for a fair tug of war.
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A couple of points:
Weapon cord:
2' long.
Unless you are a halfling or gnome, your corded weapon is NOT on the ground, it can't fall that far.
Second, even if it is on the ground, the cord prevents it from leaving your square, therefore, unless the enemy ends his turn in your square, which is against the game rules, there is no way he can be holding your corded weapon. No possible way inside the current rules.
So sorry, if the weapon is corded, you ain't grabbing it when you disarm it, since it isn't falling to the ground, nor can it be removed from the original wielder's square.
Now, some people seem to ignore some of the real down sides to weapon cords, which is that you suffer penalties while the weapon is not in hand, and you cannot wield another weapon with that same hand.
As to the bogus "You cannot use armor spikes if you are actively wielding a two-handed weapon." ruling, the people making the ruling seem to ignore that armor spikes cover the entirety of the armor, not just a fringe on the arms or some such. Can you hip bump while your hands are occupied? Yes? Then you can hip bump with the spikes.
Or do we really need to either take IUS or a dip into a level of Monk so we can threaten while wielding a two-handed weapon?
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A couple of points:
Weapon cord:
2' long.Unless you are a halfling or gnome, your corded weapon is NOT on the ground, it can't fall that far.
Second, even if it is on the ground, the cord prevents it from leaving your square, therefore, unless the enemy ends his turn in your square, which is against the game rules, there is no way he can be holding your corded weapon. No possible way inside the current rules.
So sorry, if the weapon is corded, you ain't grabbing it when you disarm it, since it isn't falling to the ground, nor can it be removed from the original wielder's square.
Now, some people seem to ignore some of the real down sides to weapon cords, which is that you suffer penalties while the weapon is not in hand, and you cannot wield another weapon with that same hand.
As to the bogus "You cannot use armor spikes if you are actively wielding a two-handed weapon." ruling, the people making the ruling seem to ignore that armor spikes cover the entirety of the armor, not just a fringe on the arms or some such. Can you hip bump while your hands are occupied? Yes? Then you can hip bump with the spikes.
Or do we really need to either take IUS or a dip into a level of Monk so we can threaten while wielding a two-handed weapon?
I am fairly sure you would need to be within two feet of the enemy of disarm them, such as with an unarmed strike.
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I am fairly sure you would need to be within two feet of the enemy of disarm them, such as with an unarmed strike.A couple of points:
Weapon cord:
2' long.Unless you are a halfling or gnome, your corded weapon is NOT on the ground, it can't fall that far.
Second, even if it is on the ground, the cord prevents it from leaving your square, therefore, unless the enemy ends his turn in your square, which is against the game rules, there is no way he can be holding your corded weapon. No possible way inside the current rules.
So sorry, if the weapon is corded, you ain't grabbing it when you disarm it, since it isn't falling to the ground, nor can it be removed from the original wielder's square.
Now, some people seem to ignore some of the real down sides to weapon cords, which is that you suffer penalties while the weapon is not in hand, and you cannot wield another weapon with that same hand.
As to the bogus "You cannot use armor spikes if you are actively wielding a two-handed weapon." ruling, the people making the ruling seem to ignore that armor spikes cover the entirety of the armor, not just a fringe on the arms or some such. Can you hip bump while your hands are occupied? Yes? Then you can hip bump with the spikes.
Or do we really need to either take IUS or a dip into a level of Monk so we can threaten while wielding a two-handed weapon?
You do know that the game is done in 5' squares? And that, on average, puts 5' between the centers of the two characters involved? 5', not 2'.
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Clearly, no one can ever attack each other then.
Clearly, you want to grab the pointy end of the stick when you disarm someone wielding a longsword on a weapon cord.
5'4" height gives an reach of arm of about 2'8", then you add the 2'6"-3' length of the average longsword. Oh, look, you can hit someone 5' away with a weapon.
Even with bare hands, you can lean over and reach, but try pulling back on a sword with a 2' cord on it attached to someone else, and you would, given common sense, wind up prone when you lose your balance because you can't straighten back up successfully. Unless you just lost your grip on the item you were trying to pull back on, instead. Which is how I would rule it, at my tables.
Sure, you can knock it out of his hands, but there is no sensible way you can hold on to it without squeezing up close to the person it is attached to. Or do you then add a Strength check to break the cord?
ETV, but, to me, common sense says that you ain't gonna be able to grab and hold on to an item attached to someone else's body.
Purse snatchers? Sure, but you will notice that they either cut the purse straps or just outright exert a lot of force and break them to get that purse. And the purse is not tied to the holder, usually. And the ones that are tied are the ones that they will avoid. Probably because they couldn't keep hold of them as the cord rips it out of their hands as they get too far from the person it is attached to.
I would guess you are going to start disarming spiked gauntlets next.
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In other news, that guide is awesome and I will be following it in my non-PFS adventures as well.
In fact, I say any other good ideas people can think of should be added and the whole thing should go into the 'Guide to Class Guides' thread under miscellaneous. Call it "How to survive level 1."
God(dess) knows I could have used it a few levels ago...
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Check out Mark's comments regarding spiked armour and a two-handed reach weapon. A bow is two-handed to wield, so I believe my ruling to be valid.
EDIT: Linky.
Thankfully, in the post about 10 down from that one, he says it's just his opinion and doesn't apply unless/until the FAQ, the CRB, or the PFS Guide are updated.
I'm sure if it were meant to apply to all weapons, rather than just armor spikes and reach weapons, an official ruling would have been made by now.
This is a great thread advice, but I had found a thread (cant now) about what you should own by level 3 in pathfinder.
It mostly talked about surviving. How its much better to have +1 armor and +1 shield than +1 weapon. While I agree with this, how can you afford anything at level 3?
While Im not new to Pathfinder, I am new to PFS. The way I look at it, I will be lucky to have 2500 gold at level 3. That is not a while lot. And its instantly gone if I get +1 full plate (2650gp).
If you look at what I spend my money on (I feel all good inventment), How Do i stay alive? I have MW main weapon, Cold iron weapon, Alchemist Silver weapon. I keep 2 each Alchemist fire and acid for swams. Sun rod, range weapon, tangle foot bag, air crystal thing (for breathing underwater). I feel im ready for everything but im level 3 with only 1 magic item (the armor) and no magic weapons, please dont use monsters with DR...
Anyone else give me some tips?
At level 1in pfs you get about 500 per adventure. 3 adventures gets you your +1 armor, 3 more adventures gets you your +1 shield.
Assuming your buying armor thats base price of 350 + Masterwork (150) + 1 magic enchantment (1000).
If I want to wear fullplate, base price of 1500 with masterwork being 1650.
Also, by what level should I have a magic weapon?
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At level 1in pfs you get about 500 per adventure. 3 adventures gets you your +1 armor, 3 more adventures gets you your +1 shield.Assuming your buying armor thats base price of 350 + Masterwork (150) + 1 magic enchantment (1000).
If I want to wear fullplate, base price of 1500 with masterwork being 1650.
Also, by what level should I have a magic weapon?
Maybe 4th or 5th, but you have to realize that going for full plate is going to eat a lot of your monetary resources, unlike your more lightly armored brethren.
And, to make life simpler in th einterim, you might want to consider some oils of Magic Weapon and/or Bless Weapon.