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Build a broken build for level 1 and then rebuild the character before you level.
You can make a magical heritage magic missile with toppling evoker wizard for 3 modules. You are 100 feet away plinking and knocking opponents down. Once you level build whatever you want.
The thing is you need decent team mates. I have seen one idiot TPK the group by rushing towards the final boss by himself.
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Don't be a douche. You don't need to MonoStat.
Use Aid Another to help your teammates. It's worth it to throw 1 rank into Disable Device and Perception just to be able to Aid Another more effectively, even when they're not class skills.
Toughness, Toughness, Toughness. If you aren't a D10 or better hit die class, this is almost always worth taking. I have seen a Level 1 Sorcerer with 14 CON and Toughness and Favored Class in Hit Points walk into First Steps with 6+3+2+1=12 hit points. Pretty impressive!
If you're a caster, conditions are generally more powerful than damage at 1st level.
I am a huge fan of Wand of {Utility Spell} - Comprehend Languages is a great wand. Cast it on the scout who goes ahead; this way they can understand whatever they overhear. Cast it on yourself when you need to read those silly runes.
Cast it on the Lucky 7s Fighter and hand him a copy of 50 Shades of Twilight, the romantic story of how a sparkle-vampire came to find true love in a BDSM relationship with a rich dwarven aristocrat.
I am a huge fan of Wand of {Utility Spell} - Comprehend Languages is a great wand. Cast it on the scout who goes ahead; this way they can understand whatever they overhear.
It has Personal range, so you can't cast it on someone else.
I agree with Ad Astra. I just hit 2nd with my cleric. Started with 13 hit points. In our last session, he was down to 3, but didn't go down. We'd have been in a pickle if he was at 0, instead.
Toughness has saved a lot of my characters. Take it at 1st. It's one feat you'll never regret taking.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I agree with Ad Astra. I just hit 2nd with my cleric. Started with 13 hit points. In our last session, he was down to 3, but didn't go down. We'd have been in a pickle if he was at 0, instead.
Toughness has saved a lot of my characters. Take it at 1st. It's one feat you'll never regret taking.
Note: Unless taking Toughness prevents you from taking a different feat that you need in order to even be functional (like if you're a non-human PC that uses Weapon Finesse). I'd also consider skipping it for archers.
But if you're looking at single-digit HP at first level, Toughness should definitely be on your short list for your first feat.
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I'm with Jiggy - Toughness should be considered for anyone with single digit HP at level 1, but it's not essential.
I do consider a Con of at least 12, preferably 14, to be essential. Not only does it give you more HP per level, but even if you hit negative HP, you'll have a bigger buffer between down and dead. I think my only PFS character with a Con below 12 is my archer bard with 10 Con, and I debated for a while if I thought I could get away with that.
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Dodge sucks at level 9+. Toughness only gets better. Sure you need to survive the first levels, but honestly, surviving high levels is harder. It's just easier to come back from the dead later in life.
edit: AC in general sucks at high levels. After a certain point, the best method for defense is not getting hit (miss chances, saving throws) or being able to take a hit (hit points).
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Sure you need to survive the first levels, but honestly, surviving high levels is harder.
...Which is a moot point if they still don't survive the early levels. "Harder than that which I've not accomplished" doesn't mean much. ;)
Now go away, before people figure out that I'm just trying to keep the food from spoiling before you get a chance to eat it!
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I may choose toughness on a rare occasion such as playing a low HD melee character or if I didn't invest enough in Con. I think that it is a better choice at lvl 1 than other lvls but at least it keeps getting better.
I completely agree with Kyle in regards to dodge...meh about sums it up.
Of the three (toughness, dodge, imp Init.) I would go Imp Init 90% of the time. Going first is sooner is always a good thing. Imp Init also doesn't change in effectiveness. For the most part what people start with as an Init bonus is what they stay at for their entire characters career.
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I would go Imp Init 90% of the time. Going first is sooner is always a good thing. Imp Init also doesn't change in effectiveness. For the most part what people start with as an Init bonus is what they stay at for their entire characters career.
I keep hearing this sentiment, yet of my ~9 PCs, only one has it, and none of the others miss it.
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Improved Init is very situational. For certain classes, it's great, but for others, it's completely unnecessary.
Rogues want to catch the bad guys flat footed for sneak attacks, so they want good init. Any spellcaster with AOE spells wants the chance to cast them while their targets are all bunched together at the start of a fight (whether it's to fireball the bad guys or buff their allies).
But that's about it. I'd never even consider Improved Init for anyone else.
Toughness, on the other hand, works for everybody.
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Math FTW.
Assumptions. NPC has a 50% chance to hit you normally. They deal 1d6+2 damage (avg 5.5). You're a d8 class with 12 con and used your FC bonus for hit points.
Jiggy - 10 hit points. Takes dodge because it's awesome! Now the NPC only has a 45% chance to hit them. At that rate, he'll be unconcious every 4.04 attacks.
Kyle - 13 hit points 'cuz he took toughness. NPC still has a 50% chance to hit him, but now it'll take 4.72 attacks to knock him unconscious. Of course Kyle also has GM Ferocity so he doesn't actually go unconscious. Ever.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Math FTW.
Assumptions. NPC has a 50% chance to hit you normally. They deal 1d6+2 damage (avg 5.5). You're a d8 class with 12 con and used your FC bonus for hit points.
Jiggy - 10 hit points. Takes dodge because it's awesome! Now the NPC only has a 45% chance to hit them. At that rate, he'll be unconcious every 4.04 attacks.
Kyle - 13 hit points 'cuz he took toughness. NPC still has a 50% chance to hit him, but now it'll take 4.72 attacks to knock him unconscious. Of course Kyle also has GM Ferocity so he doesn't actually go unconscious. Ever.
You stuck me with Dodge? I'd have taken Armor of the Pit (+2 nat armor) as a tiefling instead.
How much does that affect the math?
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Archer Rangers so they can put the hurt on first, drop the BBE before he even casts the spell, (or as an active spell deterant. "If he starts casting, I shot him. Try to cast past a 2d6+10 HP damage!")
Anyone with attack spells. "I Hold him"
Anyone with defensive spells. "I cast Communal Resist Fire, before the dragon breaths"
Anyone with high Face skills "Good man! I say, we are here to releave you in guard duty! Bluff check of 61."It is ALWAYS good to go first. Sometimes there is no second.
As soon as I finished reading this, I saw I had a new work email. The subject line was "Help your PC run faster". Threw me for a loop. :/
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Well in the original example, dodge is better once the NPC needs a 17 to hit you normally. With the +2 instead of +1 that changes to when the NPC needs 13 to hit you without the feat. So some of it depends on your base AC.
Also, it should go w/o saying that the more hit points you get from your class and constitution, the less important toughness is.
ImpInit is used every single encounter.
Interesting...in my experience, Improved Initiative is only used in about 20% of encounters.
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ImpInit is used every single encounter.Interesting...in my experience, Improved Initiative is only used in about 20% of encounters.ok, you got me here. I'm to slow to see it.
??
Please explain it to me.
In any given combat, you only have 20 possible initiative results. Four of those will be turned from "going after NPC X" to "going before NPC X" by ImpInit. The other 16 possible rolls are either already high enough that you didn't need ImpInit to go first, or low enough that ImpInit still leaves you going second.
The 4 rolls where ImpInit actually changes the outcome are 20% of possible rolls.
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I took an interest in reading this thread, since my character leveled to 2 last week. (Just can't seem to be able to get the time to go to my local PFS games, sigh).
Said character was a level 1 Ranger. He took Toughness (and Power Attack, as he is Human). Favored Class in HP, 14 Con. Had 16 HP. In the last mod I played, the Inquisitor and I had the same amount of HP (he was level 2), and also had Toughness (he had a 10 Con, which did make me cringe, but I didn't say anything; it was his character after all, who am I to say something?)
Anyways, said Inquisitor opened a door and set off a trap that did 15 points of damage. We were both at 1 HP. Thank you Toughness!
Anyways, all this PFS talk reminds me of my Living Greyhawk days. Back then, AC seemed to matter more at lower levels. By the time you were in mid-levels, HP mattered more. Although I never got there, I heard that the higher levels of Living Greyhawk, AC mattered again.
So in that vein, I'd vote that, generally, Toughness is more useful than Dodge. There are some classes where Dodge is better than Toughness. But if you're going to be spending time in melee, I'd personally rather have Toughness.
Of course, now that my character is level 2, I leveled into Martial Artist Monk, and now have Dodge as well!
(As far as Improved Initiative is concerned, that's a useful feat for casters. My PFS Battle Oracle has Improved Initiative and Extra Revelation (War Sight); almost always goes first, and buffs the party with Bless).
All this Living Greyhawk talk of mine reminds me: I still owe Jason Bulmahn a punch in the face. ;-) (For the record: I am kidding, of course. Although, I can't remember exactly why, but I know it was because of a stupid Living Greyhawk module he wrote.)
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Improved Initiative increases the chances you'll go before the NPC (or other PCs) by 20%. That was the joke.
Still, with the possible exception of Kyle's table, I'm pretty sure toughness makes a difference to the outcome in far less than 20% of encounters.
I need Dodge as a pre-requisite for other things. What is Toughness a prerequisite for ?
Probably the best way to survive 1st level in any "pick up group" is to hang back and ride out the adventure =P
I define the "pick up group" as a drop in game, where odds are people are of different experience levels within the module range. Anyone can drop in on the game. And odds are you don't really know anyone or their playstyles at the table.
1st Level characters are fragile, and until you know how your teammates respond, don't take unnecessary risks.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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ImpInit is used every single encounter.Interesting...in my experience, Improved Initiative is only used in about 20% of encounters.ok, you got me here. I'm to slow to see it.
??
Please explain it to me.In any given combat, you only have 20 possible initiative results. Four of those will be turned from "going after NPC X" to "going before NPC X" by ImpInit. The other 16 possible rolls are either already high enough that you didn't need ImpInit to go first, or low enough that ImpInit still leaves you going second.
The 4 rolls where ImpInit actually changes the outcome are 20% of possible rolls.
Well, at most 20%. It's possible that there aren't four values you could roll that would be changed by ImpInit (e.g. if you'd always beat the NPC with a roll of 3 or higher, or if you'd need to roll a 22 or better).
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Toughness is a great feat. If there isn't a feat that will serve you better.
On the down side, Toughness has two dead levels, where it just sits there. And there are many levels where having more hit points is of questionable value.
Does Toughness help you with your Reflex, Fortitude or Will saves? Nope. Won't even help you if you get CdGed, since that is when you are helpless, and you have to make a Fort save to survive. Fail that Fort save, and it doesn't matter if you are at -5 or -100.
Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes and Great Fortitude are of much greater utility, overall, when you start getting Save or Suck/Die spells. Like Color Spray. 10% greater chance of not being blinded, stunned and unconscious for too damn long? Priceless.
Heck, 3 extra hit points, or having the feats needed to support your schtick?
Sure you can live and do fine against most opponents at first level without Power Attack, but Weapon Focus would be a great alternative. Hitting your opponent means you have a chance of talking him down before he gets a chance to hit you.
Toughness leaves me flat, especially as it is a dead-end feat. And, overall, doesn't help my PCs do their jobs any better than having a more appropriate feat would. Probably, overall, less, really.
Dodge is a little better, if I am planning on going down a feat chain that requires Dodge as a prerequisite. Otherwise, it leaves me as flat as Toughness.
If the GM keeps rolling high on his dice, neither Toughness nor Dodge will be of great benefit. If he hits you for max damage, you aren't likely to be happy when your AC doesn't stop it, and you can't soak the damage that well. YMMV.
Weapon Focus, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse, Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot, just for starters, provide greater, more durable benefits.
Weapon Focus lets you hit more often.
Combat Reflexes? "That Fighter has already taken his AoO, go ahead and cast next to him, or try to bypass him to get to the squishies." Heh.
Weapon Finesse? Always a good option for Dex-based builds, or Dex & X casters, so it improves their melee touch attack chances...
Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot? Again, archers and spellcasters who use ranged touch attacks both benefit from these feats. They also work well for those Elven spellcasters who fall back on their racial bow proficiency for times when they don't have an appropriate spell. Human spellcasters, of course, can have both of them out of the box.
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Don't shoot bows when standing next to NPCs.
They can disarm you. They can, if they have a weapon in one hand, disarm you as an AoO and disrupt your shot. This is usually MUCH nastier than if they just do damage to you.
You, being armed with a bow, do not provoke AoOs when they disarm you, even if they don't have Improved Disarm.
You will be very sad when the NPC runs away with your bow. Especially if it's the bow you JUST got enchanted...yes, that's not exactly first level.
(You can now picture the silhouette of a Goblin running away with his prize held high over his head.)
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Don't shoot bows when standing next to NPCs.
They can disarm you. They can, if they have a weapon in one hand, disarm you as an AoO and disrupt your shot. This is usually MUCH nastier than if they just do damage to you.
You, being armed with a bow, do not provoke AoOs when they disarm you, even if they don't have Improved Disarm.
You will be very sad when the NPC runs away with your bow. Especially if it's the bow you JUST got enchanted...yes, that's not exactly first level.
(You can now picture the silhouette of a Goblin running away with his prize held high over his head.)
1) If you have enough moola to enchant the bow, you probably have a high enough level to get Point Blank Master. No AoO = no disarm attempt.
Add Snap Shot, and a Disarm attempt without Improved Disarm provokes from YOU. And any damage you do adds to your CMD to not be disarmed.
Don't forget some way to handle grapples and adjacent enemies if you don't have your bow out/available, like a spiked gauntlet, and his trying to pick up your bow will provoke from him again. You DO have Combat Reflexes with this build, don't you?
And, if you have enough money to enchant your primary weapon, you will have enough extra money to have at least one spare.
"I got his bow! I got his ... Ouch! ... booooooow." Thunk.
Not to mention that, unless your build is fairly odd, you should have a good CMD already. And, if you can, take the FCB which allows you to add to your CMD vs two combat maneuvers. Disarm, trip and sunder are all good options to think about.
Also, just as an aside, Disarm, unless you are built for it, is not that good an option.
Feats, assuming Fighter:
L1: Point Blank Shot
F1: Precise Shot
F2: Weapon Focus: Longbow
L3: Rapid Shot
F4: Weapon Specialization: Longbow
L5: Point Blank Master
F6: Snap Shot
L7: Combat Reflexes
F8: Deadly Aim
L9: Improved Snap Shot
F10: Manyshot
L11: Improved Precise Shot
F12: Hammer the Gap/Clustered Shots/Greater Snap Shot
With Human, move some of the feats to lower level, allowing Manyshot around 6th level, as well. Add Mistmail, and the higher Dex an archer build needs, and you get hard to hit, or disarm, since the miss chance applies to combat maneuvers...
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"OK, I shoot the other bad guy over there."
"You realize there's a guy standing next to you, right?"
"Yeah, but he's only got a light mace. I can take his AoO, and the guy I'm targeting is a bigger threat."
(Dice Roll): "Does a 26 beat your CMD?"
"...yes. Why?"
"Because you used to have a bow. Now you don't."
"What?"
"He disarmed you. And because he has a hand free, he now has your bow."
"..."
"Oh, and your shot doesn't go off."
"What's he doing on his initiative?"
"Taking a Run action. Your bow is worth more than what they were going to pay him. You're wearing Medium Armor, right?"
"...and he's wearing studded leather. Aaaaaaaargh!"
The player I inflicted this on will never...ever...ever...make this mistake again.
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"OK, I shoot the other bad guy over there."
"You realize there's a guy standing next to you, right?"
"Yeah, but he's only got a light mace. I can take his AoO, and the guy I'm targeting is a bigger threat."
(Dice Roll): "Does a 26 beat your CMD?"
"...yes. Why?"
"Because you used to have a bow. Now you don't."
"What?"
"He disarmed you. And because he has a hand free, he now has your bow."
"..."
"Oh, and your shot doesn't go off."
"What's he doing on his initiative?"
"Taking a Run action. Your bow is worth more than what they were going to pay him. You're wearing Medium Armor, right?"
"...and he's wearing studded leather. Aaaaaaaargh!"The player I inflicted this on will never...ever...ever...make this mistake again.
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
If he was wielding a mace, he cannot automatically pick up the weapon dropped.
Now, your player should have taken a 5' step, or pulled out his backup sword if he couldn't 5' step.
Then again, your player should have gotten an AoO, since he was wearing armor heavy enough to come with gauntlets, and gauntlets are treated as a weapon, so they threaten.
And, on the 5' step, that is one of the reasons my primary PC took a level of Cleric of Desna (Travel & Liberation domains) at 2nd level. Agile Step means you can 5' step in any terrain... Not to mention that my archer has never worn medium armor, and has a 40' base speed...