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Sorry if this is out there but I havent been able to find it....
As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat.
So pretty easy to understand: youve got 2 adjacent enemies in front of you, hitting the first triggers a Cleave against the second. What Im wondering is how this stacks with other abilities. For example:
If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.
Ive found other threads that say if Im using Cleave and my first attack drops enemy #1 that triggers both the Cleave and the Cleaving Finish. But since there is only 1 remaining enemy do I get both attacks against him? Fluff makes sense: your swing hits the one and continues onto the second, then you hit the second again on the backswing. But is it allowed or must I have three adjacent enemies to benefit from both? And does enemy #3 need to be adjacent to enemy #2 or enemy #1??
Then it gets even more complicated:A mighty cleaving weapon allows a wielder using the Cleave feat to make one additional attack if the first attack hits, as long as the next foe is adjacent to the first and also within reach. This additional attack cannot be against the first foe.
I have to be using Cleave to make this ability work, and it says 'one additional attack' which cannot be against the first enemy. To me this means I get two attacks as a result of a hit (a Cleave and a Mighty Cleave) and since it only talks about restrictions to attacking the FIRST enemy I can take those two attacks on enemy #2. If thats wrong and I need two additional enemies to attack it seems like very situational ability to add to a weapon.
If it does mean that I get 2 hits against enemy #2 because Cleave stacks with Mighty, it seems to support the notion that Cleave stacks with Cleaving Finish in the same way. And following that thought further, if I have Cleave and Cleaving Finish and a Mighty Cleaving weapon do I then get THREE attacks against enemy #2? Or must I have FOUR adjacent enemies to take advantage of all those abilities together?? Three attacks seems too powerful but needing four enemies exactly adjacent seem like too much.
Thanks for staying with me through that long post, and thanks for yout thoughts!
My first thoughts are: If it appears to be too good to be true...
.. then go for it!
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Cleaving Finish:
If your attack against the first target drops him you immediately get your cleaving finish attack against any other target you can reach, including target 2.
Once this cleaving finish attack is resolved continue your normal attack with Cleave against target 2.
Mighty Cleaving is a strangely worded ability that I figure to be an extra attack against any target adjacent to the first. This is outside of the normal cleave sequence.
Cleave +Cleaving Finish + Mighty Cleaving Example:
Attack 1 (Cleave): attack Creature 1, Creature 1 drops
Attack 2 (Cleaving Finish): attack creature within reach (including Creature 2)
Attack 3 (Mighty Cleaving): attack creature adjacent to Creature 1 (including Creature 2)
Attack 4 (Cleave): attack Creature 2
In the end, yes you just got 3 attacks on creature 2 for the price of 2 feats and 1 magic weapon property. That seems reasonable.
Where it breaks down is ye old 'bag of rats' trick where you use Great Cleave and Improved Cleaving finish to get an infinite number of attacks upon a creature. Oh well.
- Gauss
BBT:
Cleave is not a trap feat. For a single feat you can make two attacks as a standard action. Note: I state single feat because Power Attack is a gimme for most builds.
With the exception of Haste and TWF it is the best way to get multiple attacks against multiple people until level 11. And even from levels 11 until 14 it is still valuable since that third attack is unlikely to hit.
- Gauss
Cleave works fine without the Dwarven Cleave feats. The level 11 paladin in the game I GM absolutely loves cleave when she is not hastened. Her third iterative attack rarely hits anyhow.
- Gauss
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So, what if...
I have Cleave and Cleaving Finish, and I use a standard action to use Cleave. My attack successfully hits, so I may make an additional attack against another target adjacent to the first and also within reach. That attack succeeds, and drops that target. Do I then get to make another attack against the first target due to Cleaving Finish?
Yes
Cleave is a wonderful feat to have as a martial character. It gives you a potential two attacks when moving.
Adding on Cleaving Finish and Improved Cleaving Finish is the icing on the cake. Cleaving Finish gets even better with a little team work, if you coordinate with teammates to soften up targets and then attack them it gives a better chance of using Cleaving Finish.
IMO the utility of cleave as a feat depends on the campaign and your role in the party.
In one campaign we have a witch with an emphasis on blasting and an oracle that does AoE debuffs in our party so I leave crowd control to them and spend my feats to make sure my samurai excels at taking down a single boss-type enemy (hitting high AC, doing good damage, laying on debuffs via the critical focus chain and surviving whatever a boss is going to dish out).
In another (lower level, low magic) campaign we don't have an arcane blaster so cleave is an excellent investment for my fighter. Depending on the trajectory the campaign takes I may take up cleaving finish since cutting down crowds will be one of the fighter's primary jobs.
So, out of curiosity, what about the Mighty Cleaving property and Improved Cleave?
Would Mighty Cleaving just kick in on the first cleave, or would it apply to every time Improved Cleave generated a valid attack? For example, I move up to where 3 mooks are, like idiots, standing all side by side. I se my standard action to use Improved Cleave, and hit, Mighty Cleaving goes off, and then after that, I take my extra cleave attack, which hits. That will trigger another cleave attack, due to Improved Cleave, but does it trigger Mighty Cleaving?
Cleave is a wonderful feat to have as a martial character. It gives you a potential two attacks when moving.
Adding on Cleaving Finish and Improved Cleaving Finish is the icing on the cake. Cleaving Finish gets even better with a little team work, if you coordinate with teammates to soften up targets and then attack them it gives a better chance of using Cleaving Finish.
I don't know Improved Cleaving Finish seems like it won't activate enough to be worth pursuing.
Even if you are fighting mooks unless you can reliably one shot the mook, Improved Cleaving Finish is not going to come into play all that much. Yeah it'll be fun if you go on a crit streak but is it really worth to pick up a feat that requires chaining crits or non-focus fire kill stealing?
As i said it requires a small amount of team work. One PC softens up foes and the other attacks the injured ones to have a better chance on using Cleaving Finish. (Working together the PCs will be doing more damage overall.)
