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I would rather see the non CRB pregens eliminated and just stick to the iconic core pregens.
I can see why you would have this opinion, but I can't really see the class being uncommon or complex as a compelling reason to say that people can't use them as a pregen.
1st level pregens are somewhat irrelevant in any case, since you can make an intro character and retrain, and for higher level pregens, when you get forced into using pregens at a higher level it sucks already so why not let the player choose from any class.
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Attention: The pregens are not “last resorts”. They are “first resorts” for people trying out the game for the 1st time. Having more options to pick from would be nice for new players. Certainly all of the core classes should be represented.
Just because the pregens use core assumptions and iconic weapons (like Valeros’ long sword and short sword) doesn’t mean they can’t be optimized within those constraints.
Hopefully it’s coming with the codex.
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why not let the player choose from any class.
Think about this topic from the perspective of the event organizer. If we were to maintain a pregen for all the CRB and APG classes, each with three level versions, we're talking 17 classes, 51 total pregens. Assuming you have to print more than one copy of each one to cover player requests, that could mean a lot of paper/ink. At the last convention I organized, I printed ten copies of each pregen. With an expanded roster, that would have been an entire ream of paper and A LOT of printer ink. And that's on top of chronicles, reporting sheets, flyers, handouts, blank character sheets, back-up copies of all scenarios on the schedule, faction missions, etc. Imagine being in charge of printing/sorting pregens for GenCon if there were 51 versions, or more if we added UM/UC/splat. We'd use up the printing budget for the entire con just on pregens. *exaggeration*
I tend to think of the pregens from the perspective of their primary/original intent...to allow a new player to join a game without having to make a big investment in time or money prior to trying out the game. Personally, I shy away from catering to existing players who want to use a pregen, for whatever reason. Sure there are times when it happens, but IMO, it happens too often and should not over-shadow the focus on n00bs.
Too many choices make it hard to decide. I've seen players spend a half-hour or more trying to decide which pregen to play and that is with only seven choices. I just don't think this is as big an issue as some try to make it out to be. Do I think it would be cool to have a pregen for every class? Sure, but I don't think the pro's outweigh the cons. YMMV
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To be honest, if I were to run or help run a convention, I would split the pregens (even existing ones) into "beginner" and "advanced". I would then have pre-printed the beginner ones to have handy, and have advanced ones printable on demand as Eric suggests above.
For example, the current pregen gunslinger I think needs to be tossed in the advanced pile. Once we get the other Core Pregens from NPC codex (as stated by Mark above), I would add the Druid (since she has an AC) and maybe the Bard in that pile as well.
If we are talking about APG/UM classes, then Alchemist, Summoner, Inquisitor, Oracle, Magus would also make my advanced list.
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We recently plugged a couple of the L7 pregens (Merisiel and Ezren) into Hero Lab. As best we could tell they would appear to be built on a 19-point buy, not 20 points, and to have some skill points unassigned. Ezren is also supposed to have one of his feats be a bonus feat, but none of his feats are from the list of feats that he can take as a bonus feat.
Let me know when you know.
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the 7th level samurai mount is still built at 4th level, and doesn't take into effect the existing rules for bite/hoof/hoof all being primary, it still has the multiattack feat. it doesn't have light armor proficiency bonus feat and doesn't take the -1 size penalty on its attacks into consideration. 7th level samurai has the greater weapon focus instead of probably weapon specialization which it actually can qualify for. at 7th his skills don't match up. 1st he's taken linguistics to speak Common and Tien. really he wouldn't start with those already? and ranks in perform , but the mwk bonus from his music instrument isn't listed in with his skills at 7th. His ride skill is listed with the AC penalty even though he doesn't take a penalty to ride his chosen mount. And all his melee weapons are two handed weapons, but the power attack description only lists it as -2 to attack/+4 to damage instead of +6 to damage. The mount is also wrong at 4th. at 1st its just missing light armor proficiency. and his katana is listed as wielded 1 handed, should have str+.5 as he doesn't wield a shield.
7th level cleric has the bonus from a phylactery of channelling included in her stats without actually having the equipment.
all 4th and 7th level versions are calculated with NPC hp instead of full hp at first level. missing 2 hp at 4th, and 3 hp at 7th level.
Ezren is listed has having a +5 attack bonus with hand of the apprentice in the text(+4 int, +1 mwk at 1st), but a +7 to hit in the stat block. the +5 is correct it shouldn't be +7. at 4th level it should be +7, and at 7th level it should be +9. its +2 higher that it should be at all levels, they seem to count his bab + his dex + his int, instead of bab + int.
the 7th level gunslinger has a mwk pistol whose damage is listed as 1d6 instead of 1d8. She's listed as having a +2 reliable pistol, should be a +1 reliable pistol. and her pistol whip entry doesn't include str bonus to damage.
Valeros at 7th has an extra off hand attack with his shortsword without having Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat.
i hadn't gotten to the cleric or ninja yet. but anyone that sits down with the first level ninja at my tables, i recommend adjusting his stats to a 12 or 13 con.
Most except the hp work out in player favor most of the time. with the samurai being the most riddled w/ errors. But should someone find a phylactery in the game and think to put it on the cleric, they won't be able to see she's already got it.
Those are the errors I know of.
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there'd be no reason a convention organizer would have to print all of them
Then what's the point of having all the classes? I thought the primary reason for adding all these fancy new pregens was to provide options to the players. How would you know which ones to print and which not to? How do you know who is going to show up and play? What about unregistered players? They could be last-minute walk-ins that would prefer playing one of the pregens you didn't bring. If we're not going to print them all out and have available then what's the point?
To be honest, if I were to run or help run a convention, I would split the pregens (even existing ones) into "beginner" and "advanced". I would then have pre-printed the beginner ones to have handy, and have advanced ones printable on demand as Eric suggests above.
So now we are going to have organizer variation as to what is/not an appropriate pregen for beginners and which are advanced. If a pregen is advanced enough that we don't want new players using them, then again, what's the point? And the vast majority of conventions do not have onsite print-on-demand accessibility.
I'm not trying to just be contrarian, I just don't understand the need for more pregen options. Maybe I just need to accept that I'll never get it and move on. The more I think about this topic, the more I really don't care if there are more pergens. I think I will stick to the four core iconics to have available if I organize an event. If a player wants to play one of the other ones (should more become legal), I'll leave it up to them to provide it for themselves.
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I think I'll just stay with my SOP of whipping something up for the new guys in 15 minutes and dotting the I's and crossing the T's latter.
If your actions get players excited and they continue to play, then go for it. The only caveat is that you can only do that for level 1's. The only legal level 4/7 pregens are the ones available for download in the society webpage.
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I have just discovered an apparent minor error with L1 Merisiel and would like to request that someone confirm my findings:
I think her total skill bonuses for Disable Device and Sleight of Hand should be +8 and +7 respectively, but the Pre-gen sheet has them reversed.
Anyone agree or disagree?
the 7th level samurai mount is still built at 4th level, and doesn't take into effect the existing rules for bite/hoof/hoof all being primary, it still has the multiattack feat. it doesn't have light armor proficiency bonus feat and doesn't take the -1 size penalty on its attacks into consideration. 7th level samurai has the greater weapon focus instead of probably weapon specialization which it actually can qualify for. at 7th his skills don't match up. 1st he's taken linguistics to speak Common and Tien. really he wouldn't start with those already? and ranks in perform , but the mwk bonus from his music instrument isn't listed in with his skills at 7th. His ride skill is listed with the AC penalty even though he doesn't take a penalty to ride his chosen mount. And all his melee weapons are two handed weapons, but the power attack description only lists it as -2 to attack/+4 to damage instead of +6 to damage. The mount is also wrong at 4th. at 1st its just missing light armor proficiency. and his katana is listed as wielded 1 handed, should have str+.5 as he doesn't wield a shield.
7th level cleric has the bonus from a phylactery of channelling included in her stats without actually having the equipment.
all 4th and 7th level versions are calculated with NPC hp instead of full hp at first level. missing 2 hp at 4th, and 3 hp at 7th level.
Ezren is listed has having a +5 attack bonus with hand of the apprentice in the text(+4 int, +1 mwk at 1st), but a +7 to hit in the stat block. the +5 is correct it shouldn't be +7. at 4th level it should be +7, and at 7th level it should be +9. its +2 higher that it should be at all levels, they seem to count his bab + his dex + his int, instead of bab + int.
the 7th level gunslinger has a mwk pistol whose damage is listed as 1d6 instead of 1d8. She's listed as having a +2 reliable pistol, should be a +1 reliable pistol. and her pistol whip entry doesn't include str bonus to damage.
Valeros at 7th has an extra off hand attack with his shortsword without...
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I think I'll just stay with my SOP of whipping something up for the new guys in 15 minutes and dotting the I's and crossing the T's latter.If your actions get players excited and they continue to play, then go for it. The only caveat is that you can only do that for level 1's. The only legal level 4/7 pregens are the ones available for download in the society webpage.
Or, now, the level 1/7 pregens from the NPC codex (which, IMO, are generally better than the dowloadables on the Paizo site; they also offer some additional character classes).