I'm the same. I also don't know why.
My two particular bugbears are when someone "pours" over a book, or uses "insure" instead of "ensure".
I think it annoys me because I want to read the message or the story or whatever, and noticing the spelling (and mostly I can't help but notice it) interferes with that. I don't like the distraction (and now I'm double-checking my spelling).
Wrong use of "Then" & "Than"...
GRU
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When i see words like sourceror, resistence, rouge and similar, i get very annoyed, but i resist correcting the people who wrote them. And i see some people persistently write like that. Why does that annoy me so?
Any ideas?
It's "I", not "i".
I get annoyed by such errors too, especially when the error is my own*.
It might be partly because I am not native English speaker so it might be the brain's defense reaction against conditioning oneself to use erroneous words.
The game terms, especially "sourceror" and especially "rouge", occur so often in the rulebook that if someone mispels them them I have serious doubts about whether or not they looked up the answer to begin with.
Some portion of these people may have a reading disability, and some may be doing it sarcastically. I try not to get too steamed by it. But, if it's there, there needs to be real substance to the post or else I'm going to ignore it.
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Fear my 20th level Saucerer, and his Profession (Chef) check!
Surprised you didn't multiclass into Pastamancer.
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Any ideas?
Nothing you can really do but learn to let it go. I always make sure to double check myself, and even then I miss things. Maybe make a quick note, because some people just don't know, but hounding them won't accomplish anything but upset on both ends. You can't make someone care about their penmanship unless they want to care.
My personal peeve isn't so much people with bad spelling or grammar, as it is potential GMs with poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation who insist in PBP recruitments that the game is going to be RP-heavy.
That, and people who don't bother with any of those things, CAPITAL letters, or formatting tags, with the excuse that it's because they're posting from their phone. I did this post on my phone...it's not really that hard to do.
Maybe one of those antique phones where you have to push '1' three times to get a 'C', I suppose, but I wouldn't think those could even get on a message board.
Definately.
<shudders>
My personal peeve isn't so much people with bad spelling or grammar, as it is potential GMs with poor spelling, grammar, and punctuation who insist in PBP recruitments that the game is going to be RP-heavy.
That, and people who don't bother with any of those things, CAPITAL letters, or formatting tags, with the excuse that it's because they're posting from their phone. I did this post on my phone...it's not really that hard to do.
Maybe one of those antique phones where you have to push '1' three times to get a 'C', I suppose, but I wouldn't think those could even get on a message board.
Formatting tags could be easier for mobile!!!!
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Use Firefox or Chrome. They come with a spell-check built in. Older versions of IE you can get an add-on that adds it, though I think the newer ones also come with it built-in.
If you have it and you're ignoring the little squiggly red lines under anything but names, that's your own fault.
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Took twenty posts before someone to come in and accuse everyone here of being bigots. Not quite a record, but close. Apparently expecting people on a text-based medium to communicate coherently is now offensive. Like pretty much everything these days.
On that note, thanks for the blatant smart-shaming.
In other news, how long until Stuffy Grammarian sees this?
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I refer you to the following thread:
You're most hatted typoes and grammer mistakes.
I think what I hate most of all is very obvious grammatical mistakes in a post that complains about grammatical mistakes. If ever there's a time when you should check your own grammar, that's the time! Isn't that obvious?
(I'm not talking about deliberate mistakes used for the sake of irony, as in the title and first post of the thread to which I linked. I mean real, careless mistakes.)
I once pointed out one such mistake, and the poster in question, whom I'll dub "poster X", gave me a very scathing and hostile reply. I immediately bailed out of the conversation, as I always do when trolling starts. I wonder whether it occurred to poster X that others might feel the same way about him when he points out mistakes made by others.
This is primary reason why I strongly dislike one hour time limit for post edition here. Too many times I noticed error minutes after the time limit passed... *sigh*
I'll never forget that day, more than a year ago, when I posted, noticed a typographical error in my post, immediately tried to edit it, and suddenly found that I couldn't post, nor even log on. It seems that some security measures at my place of work had just been changed, and I couldn't log onto Paizo from work. It would be months before I could do so. It was just so frustrating to know that I couldn't log on just to fix that one lousy typo.
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Took twenty posts before someone to come in and accuse everyone here of being bigots. Not quite a record, but close. Apparently expecting people on a text-based medium to communicate coherently is now offensive. Like pretty much everything these days.
In other news, how long until Stuffy Grammarian sees this?
It only took 21 posts for someone to get defensive about their snobbery and escalate my comment to accusations of bigotry.
There are a variety of reasons why someone may have poor spelling in a text-based medium. Here are a few: lack of education, intelligence, and non-native speaking. The two former could stem from poverty and lack of opportunity. Neither of them are worth making a thread about simply to wax egos and to make some of our friends here at the Paizo messageboards uncomfortable about posting.
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Bad spelling and grammar irk me, especially in this day and age where most browsers have spell checking software (although they may be poor, they're still something) that should at least catch words like "sourcerer" (rouge instead of rogue I get because rouge is a real word).
But I am a nitpicky English major who's always been irritatingly good at spelling (not that I haven't made some hilarious mistakes at times) and furthermore have done work as a professional proofreader/editor, so I kind of have to be good at recognizing these things. I've learned that I really am sometimes one of few people that notices an error, and have learned not to bring it up unless the issue truly is repeated or problematic (see below), so I try to set my own feelings about the issue aside.
I don't have easy advice to offer to the OP about how to disregard it except to say that you need to practice relaxing (I am serious about my phrasing, sometimes it takes practice to learn to let go of certain things) and remind yourself that you don't know the people posting. There are a lot of people who post here who are not native English speakers and there are others here who are native English speakers but dyslexic or have a similar disorder where they are well and truly doing their best to write coherently. In most cases, the challenge is to give the person the benefit of the doubt that they are doing their best and try to let it go.
THAT SAID, there are cases where grammar and spelling is so poor that understanding what the person is trying to say is extremely difficult. Often in these cases people are also really not trying to do their best and/or don't care how they present themselves textually even in a text-based world--but even if they are trying their best, if they are still incomprehensible, I think it is okay in those cases to gently point it out to them and ask them to rephrase what they have said more carefully. For example, I've said stuff like, "Hi, want to help you, but you have no punctuation in your post so I can't tell if you are a panda who wants to eat shoots and leaves (as in devour plant parts), or if you are a masked criminal who wants to eat (a meal), shoot (someone with a gun), and leave (as in exit a building). Could you please rephrase more carefully?"
You can also suggest to folks that they type their responses in Word first, which has both a grammar and spell checker. It may not be perfect but may catch the most egregious issues, and it's easy enough to keep a Word window open along with your browser and copy and paste back and forth (plus if the Paizo forums eat your post, you have a backup).
Now that we have private messages, it's also possible to do that without publicly calling attention to them.
Sometimes people aren't going to respond well--they're embarrassed about a legitimate issue like a disorder or about a non-legitimate issue like they couldn't be arsed to write well and got called out for it when they felt "entitled" to getting away with it. As long as you're kind and polite about the issue, making it clear you only want to be able to understand what they are saying, then how they react isn't your fault. If it's possible you worded something poorly, apologize, but otherwise let it go; they're not ready to deal with the issue obviously. (We all can only be responsible for what we ourselves say.)
I think it IS important to assert to others how essential it is to communicate clearly as possible, which includes writing to the best of your ability, because as long as we communicate in a text-based medium like this, misunderstanding is bound to happen, and simple, correctable errors can often assist unintentionally in creating these misunderstandings.
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It only took 21 posts for someone to get defensive about their snobbery and escalate my comment to accusations of bigotry.
There are a variety of reasons why someone may have poor spelling in a text-based medium. Here are a few: lack of education, intelligence, and non-native speaking. The two former could stem from poverty and lack of opportunity. Neither of them are worth making a thread about simply to wax egos and to make some of our friends here at the Paizo messageboards uncomfortable about posting.
Expecting proper spelling and grammar in a written-format mode of communication isn't snobbery. It's a perfectly-reasonable expectation, particularly from those of us who do exercise linguistic excellence.
I'll grant that there are reasons aside from laziness that could lead to poor usage. But the use of at least a spell-check would seem like a first resort for someone in those positions (well, other than the lack of intelligence you mentioned; can't expect intelligent responses from them).
Disliking the jarring sensation of wrongly-spelled words and/or improperly-written sentences -- and posting about that dislike -- is not snobbery
Mind you, your irritating post accusing people of "classism, regional chauvinism, and privilege" doesn't qualify as bigotry, either.
It's only rude and willfully-ignorant.
^ well said ^
^ well said ^
Thank you.
There's an art to delivering a scathing critique without summoning the post-removal squad... I hope, one day, to be a maestro.
:)
Using the not-a-word "dunno" in the title of a thread complaining about mispelling is really not the way to go.
...and, well... point to you, Sir and/or Madam!
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I guess it annoys me because I am not a native English speaker, and try very hard to type properly. And then I notice a post, that is really well written, except this one word that the poster keeps misspelling. And it pokes me right in the eye...I can't un-notice it. Damn, did I spell that right?
Then i politely message the poster, telling them that i noticed their mistake, and point out that i just want to help. And get insulted for it. Repeatedly.
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Expecting proper spelling and grammar in a written-format mode of communication isn't snobbery. It's a perfectly-reasonable expectation, particularly from those of us who do exercise linguistic excellence.
Expecting it isn't snobbery. Creating a thread that pokes fun of poor grammar and spelling is - especially when one gives examples from the boards.
I'll grant that there are reasons aside from laziness that could lead to poor usage. But the use of at least a spell-check would seem like a first resort for someone in those positions (well, other than the lack of intelligence you mentioned; can't expect intelligent responses from them).
Yes but spell-check wouldn't catch "rouge". Also, many people are unaware of their browser's spell check feature. More shocking, some people do not even know what a spell check is because they don't have a personal computer.
I would wager that the vast majority of spelling and grammar errors come from a lack of education, a lack of natural intelligence, or a learning disability. I do not believe that laziness is that strong of a factor considering that when a mistake is made it is usually pointed out and leads to embarrassment. No one likes to look stupid.
If the concept that the poster is attempting to convey is clearly understood, there is no reason to point out spelling and grammar issues on a messageboard dedicated to a hobby that is about having fun.
Disliking the jarring sensation of wrongly-spelled words and/or improperly-written sentences -- and posting about that dislike -- is not snobbery
Pointing it out, correcting it needlessly, and citing examples from the boards has the possibility of ostracizing people in our hobby's community. To me that is snobbery.
Mind you, your irritating post accusing people of "classism, regional chauvinism, and privilege" doesn't qualify as bigotry, either.
It's only rude and willfully-ignorant.
Forgive my rudeness but I have worked with children in the past that were from extremely underprivileged neighborhoods. They were not exposed to the same quality of education that most Americans have access to and as a result they have very poor grammar and spelling. I would hate for one of them to come here expecting to express themselves creatively, critically, and with enthusiasm only to be torn down for their spelling and grammar mistakes or to be cited as an example in a thread about spelling and grammar.
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If the concept that the poster is attempting to convey is clearly understood, there is no reason to point out spelling and grammar issues on a messageboard dedicated to a hobby that is about having fun.
I strongly disagree. Proper way of saying something is as important as what is being said. Now I won't bash on a person for misspelling things. I will most probably point it out in a personal message.
I have done so in the past and only gotten animosity for it. I think that it is extremely rude to be unpleasant to people who want to help you.|
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If the concept that the poster is attempting to convey is clearly understood, there is no reason to point out spelling and grammar issues on a messageboard dedicated to a hobby that is about having fun.I strongly disagree. Proper way of saying something is as important as what is being said. Now I won't bash on a person for misspelling things. I will most probably point it out in a personal message.
I have done so in the past and only gotten animosity for it. I think that it is extremely rude to be unpleasant to people who want to help you.
Can't you see why that could come off as condescending or make somebody become defensive? I think you have to look at the context of the situation. In an academic or professional setting it is important to correct grammar and spelling to the best of one's ability but in a social situation I don't see why it is important as long as there is still clarity. Besides there are hundreds of grammar rules that we all universally ignore unless we are English majors.
Now some misspeaks are hilarious. I had a DM once explain that we walked into a room that had a large metal brassiere holding a green flame in the center. One of the players remarked that they would hate to meet the woman that it belonged to.
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If you are perusing threads on Paizo (or any other website) expecting to find nothing but perfection, than again, you are at fault.
*twitch*
Awww... dude, c'mon are you trollin?
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I am relieved that I am not bothered by any of this. This thread is full of classism, regional chauvinism, and privilege.
People like you are why there is a problem with the educational system. The people who complain about the poor quality of educations...and then stomp down hard whenever someone attempts to do something about that. Because pointing out someone's flaws is never constructive. Coddling them to preserve their worldview is.
I teach. It's my job to make students able to properly communicate with the world. So how exactly is it a flagrant violation of your moral code for me to find it insulting that someone like you thinks it's perfectly fine to make common, easily caught and fixed errors in basic communication?
Being able to spell makes your thoughts much easier to convey to others. I'm not saying we should all go out with our red pens held high, but I do reserve the right to twitch a little when yet another grown adult who should know better mixes up your and you're. Again.
I note that every haughty slam you've made against people who do communicate well was properly spelled. I'm glad mediocrity has such stalwart champions.
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Asphere: I fail to see how people being too poor to own a computer bears any relevance to them misspelling words when authoring posts on an Internet message board. If someone is too poor to afford a computer or Internet service, I rather doubt they are going to have enough of an online presence for it to be an issue. Last I checked, one of the few places to gain access to free computing is at a public library. That's not the sort of place mental midgets generally hang out. ;)
Also, I've dealt with managers and executives making 6-figure salaries who can't use your/you're, then/than, very/vary, or there/their/they're correctly. On the flip side I've also worked with people who came from poor families yet pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to earn full scholarships. Oddly enough, the latter seem to display perfect spelling.
From what I've seen, the biggest culprit seems to be a subset of teachers who were of the school-of-thought that their students' chief priority should be to put thoughts into words first and to edit them second. The problem is, those students were educated that way before live chat became mainstream. Editing a term paper or a creative writing assignment after-the-fact is one thing, but that habit works against someone in more immediate forms of written communication like chats and forums.
Being able to spell makes your thoughts much easier to convey to others.
^^^ This is particularly important when it comes to searching for information. While Google might be able to spellcheck my own typos in a search string, if the OP of a poignant thread on Paizo misspelled words in their thread title, there's a good chance I'll have one hell of a time finding it. (Yes, that has actually happened to me before when searching this site.)
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People like you are why there is a problem with the educational system. The people who complain about the poor quality of educations...and then stomp down hard whenever someone attempts to do something about that. Because pointing out someone's flaws is never constructive. Coddling them to preserve their worldview is.I teach. It's my job to make students able to properly communicate with the world. So how exactly is it a flagrant violation of your moral code for me to find it insulting that someone like you thinks it's perfectly fine to make common, easily caught and fixed errors in basic communication?
There is a difference between pointing out academic mistakes in a classroom setting and doing it to an adult on a message board about a hobby. It can be constructive to point out someones flaws if they are receptive to the criticism. Naturally context is everything in this situation.
I also teach. If I point out a mathematical mistake in one of my student's homework solutions I am giving constructive criticism that they are receptive to (after all they are paying to learn). If I correct an adult's grammar or spelling in a social situation it would come off as pretentious.
Being able to spell makes your thoughts much easier to convey to others.
If you typed "your" instead of "you're" I would still understand what you meant. If you said "rouge" instead of "rogue" I wouldn't be confused. If you used "than" and "then" wrong I wouldn't be lost. We aren't talking about major grammar and spelling mistakes here. These are usually trivial mistakes that typically do not alter the meaning of the ideas that are being conveyed.
I note that every haughty slam you've made against people who do communicate well was properly spelled. I'm glad mediocrity has such stalwart champions.
Oh the irony. I never slammed anyone who communicated well. I slammed people who needlessly correct grammar and spelling in recreational settings.
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There is a difference between pointing out academic mistakes in a classroom setting and doing it to an adult on a message board about a hobby....
Oh the irony. I never slammed anyone who communicated well. I slammed people who needlessly correct grammar and spelling in recreational...
I notice you didn't quote my bit about not outright correcting people but still having the right to be bothered.
*slow clap*
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Asphere: I fail to see how people being too poor to own a computer bears any relevance to them misspelling words when authoring posts on an Internet message board. If someone is too poor to afford a computer or Internet service, I rather doubt they are going to have enough of an online presence for it to be an issue. Last I checked, one of the few places to gain access to free computing is at a public library. That's not the sort of place mental midgets generally hang out. ;)
Actually most people who cannot afford a computer do go to the public library to gain access because so much of our social lives are now spent online. It is a big problem because every computer is being used by folks playing around online while people needing to use one for legitimate research or to peruse the library's catalogue have to wait or they have to complain to a librarian.
Also, I've dealt with managers and executives making 6-figure salaries who can't use your/you're, then/than, very/vary, or there/their/they're correctly. On the flip side I've also worked with people who came from poor families yet pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to earn full scholarships. Oddly enough, the latter seem to display perfect spelling.
You were surprised that a poor person who struggled to go to college and earned a scholarship had better spelling than someone who didn't?
From what I've seen, the biggest culprit seems to be a subset of teachers who were of the school-of-thought that their students' chief priority should be to put thoughts into words first and to edit them second. The problem is, those students were educated that way before live chat became mainstream. Editing a term paper or a creative writing assignment after-the-fact is one thing, but that habit works against someone in more immediate forms of written communication like chats and forums.
I completely agree with this. I don't believe the way to fix this is to make someone feel humiliated or belittled by pointing out their spelling and grammar mistakes on a message board that they have joined to discuss a recreational hobby.
On a side-note, I'm practically convinced that my own typos don't become visible until after I've clicked the submit button. I swear the preview screen purposefully hides them from me!
This happens to me as well.
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I notice you didn't quote my bit about not outright correcting people but still having the right to be bothered.There is a difference between pointing out academic mistakes in a classroom setting and doing it to an adult on a message board about a hobby....
Oh the irony. I never slammed anyone who communicated well. I slammed people who needlessly correct grammar and spelling in recreational...
So if I say people that smack their lips irritate me, am I being snobbish?
Edit: Thanks for the answer Asphere.
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I notice you didn't quote my bit about not outright correcting people but still having the right to be bothered.There is a difference between pointing out academic mistakes in a classroom setting and doing it to an adult on a message board about a hobby....
Oh the irony. I never slammed anyone who communicated well. I slammed people who needlessly correct grammar and spelling in recreational...
You do have the right to be bothered. I am bothered by it too. I wouldn't start a thread about it, cite examples from the boards, or correct someone needlessly.
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Usually it will be too late, often I will notice it before anyone points it to me, but some of them I might missed or might have used erroneously because I learned it wrong (recently SKR pointed out to me that I used expression 'beg the question' erroneously, which I did because I learned to use it incorrectly from people misusing it on internet, now I know better).
EDIT: I think I found first error...
EDIT: And second.
EDIT: If I only could edit out TOZ post to hide the proofs of my shame! *wonders if he could provoke TOZ into getting banned and having all his posts erased*
When someone mispells flail as fail, the typo is humorous.