Creative Director
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While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.I hope that one of the CR 35 examples in the playtest will be Cthulu. Seeing a dozen or more playtest topics detailing that fight would be incredibly amusing ;)
I believe that the highest CR included in the playtest is a CR 19 creature. And all the sample creatures in the playtest are existing monsters made mythic through various methods.
Once I've got the rules in MY hand, I fully intend to build a few high CR stat blocks to post for people to play against though. I could build a CR 35 Cthulhu as one of them. There'll probably also be a demon lord, an arch devil, and maybe the oliphaunt of Jandelay, even though oliophaunttt is hard to spell.
While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.I hope that one of the CR 35 examples in the playtest will be Cthulu. Seeing a dozen or more playtest topics detailing that fight would be incredibly amusing ;)
My current campaign is mind flayers from space. I need a cthulu.
This is going to be fun! It's fairly rare that I get to unleash CR 20+ beasties against the PCs, and now I might get to do so several times per session while playtesting. I'll relish this opportunity :)
Once I've got the rules in MY hand, I fully intend to build a few high CR stat blocks to post for people to play against though. I could build a CR 35 Cthulhu as one of them. There'll probably also be a demon lord, an arch devil, and maybe the oliphaunt of Jandelay, even though oliophaunttt is hard to spell.
Yeeees :D
Honestly, it would probably also be very helpful to have 'dev built' CR 35s and such for high level testing. It would give us a more consistant thing to measure our builds against.
My current campaign is mind flayers from space. I need a cthulu.While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.I hope that one of the CR 35 examples in the playtest will be Cthulu. Seeing a dozen or more playtest topics detailing that fight would be incredibly amusing ;)
Honestly, my ulterior motive is that Cthulhu is one of the primary enemies in one of the campaigns I'm currently playing in. :D
I mean 15 class levels and 5 tiers. But I'm also interested to find out how a character with 10 class levels and 5 tiers does against a CR 22 encounter. And all the possible variations in between and to either side.Just to be clear: When you say 15th-level with tier 5, do you mean "10 class levels and 5 tiers", or "15 class levels and 5 tiers"?
It almost seems like the best way to test these rules is to roll up a base character at 10 and that same character at 15. Then take each with 2, 5, and 10 mythic tiers and play out some fights. See where your 6 variations shine, and where they get steamrolled.
Optionally, you can then bump yourself to 20 with 10 tiers and proceed to bring order to (aka terrorize) the local kingdoms.
Man, I think Cthulhu gets way overblown. Sure, he's a pretty powerful dude, but the guy got taken down by a bunch of regular joes by being rammed by a ship. Sure most of them got killed and they definitely didn't kill Cthulhu, but these are just regular folk, not mighty adventurers or legendary heroes. Actually lots of creatures get this. They are much more powerful than what they face in the source material, but then when introduced to D&D they are made more powerful that those they face in the new "environment", even though characters in D&D are far more powerful than those in the source material! Personally, I think Big C should be at most CR 20, and the Star-Spawn perhaps as low as CR 10 or so.
Sorry for the tangent...
Yeah but he wasn't quite at full capacity because he had just woken up.
Yeah but he wasn't quite at full capacity because he had just woken up.If he had gotten a cup of coffee or a shower, Game Over man.
Just wait until he gets his glasses on and grabs his belt. No amount of running can be sufficient.
Early H.P. Lovecraft works differed in tone from his later works. His earlier works had a stronger "pulp" influence and he was constrained by the technology of his time. Cthuluhu's power comes largely from later ideas that humanity is fairly insignificant and irrelvant. Since most fantasy settings don't take this view you generally end up with a Cthulhu paraphrase.
One of the GURPS book, I think CthulhuTech but I can't remember, asked the question, "To Cthulhu, what's the difference between a 200 pt. hero and a 2000? None; they're equally tasty."
Hey there folks,
Sorry to disappoint on this one a bit. We ran a bit behind when we made the decision to expand the size of the document. That caused it to run into my schedule trip to Italy for Lucca Comics and Games. As the one behind these rules, we felt it was important that I be here and available during the playtest so that I could answer questions and gather feedback. This means that the playtest will be going on while we develop the book, but thats not really that big of a problem on our end. Everyone will still get the full amount of time to playtest.
And yes.. I am a big boy. I can take some criticism. No worries.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Jason,
Enjoy your vacation / business trip. We'll all be okay until you get back :)
John
There was once a question about hitting Great Cthulhu with one of the BIG nuclear weapons.
The answer is: he reforms a few minutes later, only he's VERY radioactive ... and has a LOT of power available thanks to the nuke. Way to go guys!!
Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!That is a good question. While I don't know the answer to that for sure, I'd imagine the playtest will easily allow you too add to any character. Especially sense they said that you can add mythic and take it away at anytime. Heck an item can give a character mythic powers. So yes, go ahead and pre-build your characters. I am.While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.
I'm particularly interested, though, to see how mythic characters handle non-mythic monsters that are well above what you'd think they'd be able to handle. Like throwing two balors and four mariliths at a party of 16th level characters with tier 6 mythic powers. And then tier 4. And then tier 10. And then 18th level 2 tier. And so on and so on.
Knowing full well that PFS will likely not play by these rules for quite a while, if at all, I'm still extremely excited for them. The playtest opportunities are among my greatest anticipations. Comments like this further intrigue me, to say the least.
I am already building a group of 15th level characters that I'll be adding mythic levels to when the play test drops to try all sorts of mean things to.
I think Cthulhu gets way overblown. Sure, he's a pretty powerful dude, but the guy got taken down by a bunch of regular joes by being rammed by a ship.Cthulhu didn't get taken down by a ramming ship. Cthulhu had a steamboat driven all the way through his head (his head was larger than the steamboat) and he just ignored it. He took several hundred tons of steel straight through the skull, in one side and out the other, and it didn't even slow him down.
I'm pretty sure, looking at the short story, it incapacitates him for a moment. That is the only reason the ship is able to get away.
So what kind of playtest adventure ideas are people planning to use, the fact it's a playtest and mythic must be offering quite a bit of inspiration, I hope.
Myself, I've got an idea for an adventure involving dreams and a dream world, where in the dream the players get access to their mythic powers but when they wake up they're back to their normal selves. At least at first.
So what kind of playtest adventure ideas are people planning to use, the fact it's a playtest and mythic must be offering quite a bit of inspiration, I hope.
Myself, I've got an idea for an adventure involving dreams and a dream world, where in the dream the players get access to their mythic powers but when they wake up they're back to their normal selves. At least at first.
Y'know that's a pretty good idea. I might have to do that for a Dreamlands idea I had. Whenever the players died in the dream world, they don't actually die, but wake up. Mythic would be excellent for this, thanks.
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Ooh, I could totally do that same sort of idea for when my players travel to the shadow plane.
We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.
AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.
I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!
Eh. My campaign was totally slated to be mythic anyway. Actually, just two days ago I was reading all the giant topics that were asking for epic rules, wondering if you guys were going to release a book before I needed it. When I got to the end of the topics and found out you had recently announced it, my mind was blown. (By the way, it's hilarious seeing certain users with dozens of posts vehemently against epic then be excited when you actually announce it. Good work there)
The play test delay is kinda unfortunate though - the timing will be pretty tight to see whether or not the rules are available before my players first encounter the primary villain.
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We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.
AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.
I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!
Eh. My campaign was totally slated to be mythic anyway. Actually, just two days ago I was reading all the giant topics that were asking for epic rules, wondering if you guys were going to release a book before I needed it. When I got to the end of the topics and found out you had recently announced it, my mind was blown. (By the way, it's hilarious seeing certain users with dozens of posts vehemently against epic then be excited when you actually announce it. Good work there)
The play test delay is kinda unfortunate though - the timing will be pretty tight to see whether or not the rules are available before my players first encounter the primary villain.
Mythic is NOT epic. Mythic can be played from level 1. It is simply a higher level of power like exalted or demi-gods. Its still level 1-20, not 21+.
That being said, I am extremely excited for mythic and mythic could very easily be a replacement for epic. Instead of continuing to level past 20th, characters can gain mythic tears, bringing them up to a CR 30.
So been gone for a bit what's the playtest update?
Whoo hoo just in time for my birthday you guys are awesome.
Mythic is NOT epic. Mythic can be played from level 1. It is simply a higher level of power like exalted or demi-gods. Its still level 1-20, not 21+.
That being said, I am extremely excited for mythic and mythic could very easily be a replacement for epic. Instead of continuing to level past 20th, characters can gain mythic tears, bringing them up to a CR 30.
I'm aware that it's not epic as 3.5 defined it, but to my knowledge it's taking the place of epic, and the name 'mythic' was brought up by James in the epic discussion topics.
My party isn't starting near level 20, so if it really was epic, I wouldn't be able to get any use out of the rules for years still.
No, this is a replacement for Epic. James Jacobs has said that the old 3.0 rules for Epic simply "didn't work" and this is designed to be a modable system to expand the game beyond the constraints of its current limitations. There will be no post-20th level system as far as anyone has said.
my understanding as well is that this is Paizo's solution to Epic, and that mythic rules are suppose to take their place, since they essentially will allow stories where characters face off against Demigods, demon lords, etc. Since they have mentioned in the past that they have no interest in statting up full dieties, not sure what more you could do with Epic that you can't do with mythic.
Well, Paizo has stated that they don't intend to ever stat up the 'true' gods in Pathfinder.
Since mythic lets you fight demigods, and they're never going to make it possible to fight gods, there is no reason for Paizo to ever make epic rules.
Personally, I think they should wait until Pathfinder 2.0 before even thinking about epic anyway. The power curve of the various classes has to be evened out for levels 1-20 and high level play needs to be simplified before you can even reasonably think about going higher.
Is the playtest only available to subscribers...or can anyone download? I cannot wait to put this to my group.
Also, are there any of the staff planning to run a PbP with the playtest?
There are two main differences (as I understand it) between mythic and epic.
1. Mythic does not need to be post-20. Mythic tiers can be added in whenever the GM wants. This means way more people will actually get to use them without starting at a very high level.
2. Mythic is not more levels. A mythic tier is very different from a level in your class. It's not just + to AC, Attack, and damage, more uses per dayof your abilities, or a higher caster level. It's totally new sorts of abilities, like taking two turns in one round. They work on a different wavelength than levels do.
Now, do they serve much the same purpose? They certainly can. You can make your post-20 characters with mythic and slay turbodragons and archdevils. They just have a lot more options to them and are more interesting than numerical boosts and very powerful versions of feats that already exist.
Is the playtest only available to subscribers...or can anyone download? I cannot wait to put this to my group.
Also, are there any of the staff planning to run a PbP with the playtest?
Anyone can play. They should post the rules next week sometime. Just download them and play...
-- david
Papa.DRB
Thanks Papa DRB!
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Creative Director
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I want to recreate some epic level characters. Maybe even tangle with some gods even if they're lesser ones.Darn I wanted Epic level rules...You'll get rules that will allow you to do what Epic characters did in 3.5 - kill demon lords, turbo dragons and uber goblins.
My take:
If Mythic Adventures doesn't let you recreate epic level characters and fight demigods, then we screwed it up.
Mythic Adventures is NOT the same as Epic Level—that's why we're calling it something else.
But it WILL (I hope) let us tell stories similar in scope to the varioius Epic Level adventures that we published back in the day in Dungeon Magazine, including things like the climax of Age of Worms or Savage Tide, where...
No, this is a replacement for Epic. James Jacobs has said that the old 3.0 rules for Epic simply "didn't work" and this is designed to be a modable system to expand the game beyond the constraints of its current limitations. There will be no post-20th level system as far as anyone has said.Have a link to that because my memory is exactly opposite what you are saying.
I had to ask again since I couldn't find the original post:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=493?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#24635
Will it be possible to have 20 tiers of mythic?
Will it be possible to have 20 tiers of mythic?
Probably in the same way it's currently possible to play past 20th level. You can do it, and there are minor suggestions on how to do it in the back of the book, but it's not going to be officially supported.
I think it goes to 10tiers Matthew
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I think it should go to 11...