By RAW, this is neither, but it seems a bit silly to say so. It seems pretty apparent that the creature would need to understand the question you are asking them, and thus it should at least be language-dependent.
Mind-affecting I'm much less sure about. Would this affect a vampire, for example, who is immune to mind-affecting things, but not mindless. I lean toward yes, but am uncertain.
I would say that the question is moot sinse the effect of the feat is a skill check.
Also, if i'm not mistaken, the game defined terms of language dependency and mind affecting really only apply to spells.
If the vampire fails the skill check it is effected by the feat. If a mindless creature cannot even attempt the skill check then it cannot be effected--same goes for a creature that cannot understand your language.
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This isn't the best basis for a ruling but... it seems like that feat implies a lot based on how you normally use Bluff. If you'd let a PC mislead a target with Bluff, I'd allow them to Bewildering Koan the same target.
The extra tricky part is bluff doesn't explicitly say what you need there... but I think language dependent and has-an-Intelligence-score is a very reasonable standard.
Cheers!
Landon
It's not accurate that mind-affecting only applies to spells; the Antagonize feat, for example, is mind-affecting. That being said:
If a mindless creature cannot even attempt the skill check then it cannot be effected--same goes for a creature that cannot understand your language.
If you'd let a PC mislead a target with Bluff, I'd allow them to Bewildering Koan the same target.
I think these both seem like good standards to use and, I believe, amount to the same thing.
Thanks for the input!
You can use Bluff to feint a creature. AFAIK it is neither language-dependent nor mind-affecting.
True; but feinting does not involve words.
[puts on old wise one beard]
Ah, but a true koan is equally incomprehensible in any language. And the true essence of Zen is to separate the body from the mind. Thus bewildering koan is neither mind effecting nor language dependant.
By the way, your flip flop is untied.
;-)
Woof, woof woof, bark woof.......growl bark bark woof?
First, I'm doing this for a character I'm building, not as a GM, so this is about self-limiting.
That being said, I don't think the idea that you could use this on a creature that can't understand you is plausible, and the ability is powerful enough without that. Given its potency, I'd rather interpret on the side of limitation, so I'm just going to treat it as working on creatures that can understand what you are saying to them.
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Woof, woof woof, bark woof.......growl bark bark woof?[puts on old wise one beard]
Ah, but a true koan is equally incomprehensible in any language. And the true essence of Zen is to separate the body from the mind. Thus bewildering koan is neither mind effecting nor language dependant.
By the way, your flip flop is untied.
;-)
More seriously, yes, they are befuddled as they ponder the significance of your question. So they have to be able to hear and understand your question and ponder it.
So, yes intelligent undead. No, mindless swarms
*rubs nose* I'll contact the druid guild about this.
Anyway, considering the possibility that animals can't be affected, would Speak with Animals actually be a buff for such a character?
=D Those were my thoughts, and the gnome *does* have it as a racial spell.
That being said, it's not that often that you'd want to use the ability on an animal.
=D Those were my thoughts, and the gnome *does* have it as a racial spell.
That being said, it's not that often that you'd want to use the ability on an animal.
Well, yes, you would preferably use your decent CHA score (since this comes from discussion on an Iroran Paladin guide) in order to use diplomacy. Turning that T-rex into an ally would be more useful than scrapping it for parts.
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First, I'm doing this for a character I'm building, not as a GM, so this is about self-limiting.
That being said, I don't think the idea that you could use this on a creature that can't understand you is plausible, and the ability is powerful enough without that. Given its potency, I'd rather interpret on the side of limitation, so I'm just going to treat it as working on creatures that can understand what you are saying to them.
Easy then : ask your GM. For His Word is Law, Rule and Code.
I don't have a GM, either. I'm building a character which I will possibly use in the future. Regardless, though, I would never ask a GM to let me use an ability in a way I wouldn't allow my own players to use it.
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A level 1 Zen Archer said to his master, "Can one who has no language understand a koan?"
His master said, "Can one who thinks in language ever truly understand a koan?"
The young archer persisted. "Can you tell me if I can use Bewildering Koan on one who has no language?"
His master replied, "So long as there is 'you' and 'I', there is no RAI, for the true RAI exists beyond RAW, beyond language, beyond self."
"Without 'you' and 'I', can it be done?" asked the pupil.
"Without you and I, who wants to know?"
At this, the Zen Archer became enlightened.
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^ nice.
My aasimar monk uses this in pfs. We treat it as language Dependant which sucks so hard way too often. He speaks 3-4 languages and has to spend rounds (and ki) trying different ones. He doesn't have a lot of knowledge skills to make this easier so if he did have every pathfinder language, he still would not necessarily know which to use to communicate with in a confrontation.
Also 90% of monks have a ki pool so small that shutting down an enemy a few times per day (usually at chance) is useful but a big expenditure of the monks very limited resources. That's an extra attack, bonus ac, or a number of other things depending on type of monk. Still, I make due probably because I am a Ki Mystic and a sensei which allows me a few more ki than a typical monk.
If you think you will unbalance things, you won't. Though, small scale encounters you will.....your gm should know that you plan to take that feat well in advance in a home game. If they send small enemy groups of 3 or fewer at you, you generally win until out of ki barring poor rolls from you or lucky ones from enemies.
Against certain undead (high wisdom ones), and divine casting classes, you'll encounter an efficient resource drain for you since they can beat your bluff often enough or in some cases most of the time.