Dotting to follow as I'm struggling as well.
In order to challenge the summoner I've needed to up-level the CR of the encounters to a level that is easily fatal for other party members.
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Protecttion from spells prtoect from the alib ment.
If he is becomeing a big problem, rummers would spread in the underworld about the summoner, and they would devive tatics just for him.
Like stuff to protect from summons.
Also adding a control caster to each group would help, to help counter his control.
A wizard casting haste, or Black tents would screw up the party pretty bad... and his summons.
Look at his saves, if hes becoming a problem also :) Rummers spread... Make said wizard cast Area Will save spell if his will is low, Area Fort save if his Con is low, or area reflex save if his dex is low.
Debuff him like mad
Buff the rest
Summon your own monsters
use spells to your advantage.
treat it like if you where a PC and u heard rummers about that summoner, how would you counter it with spells, items, exc.
First off double check their math and make sure they are following all the rules involved with their eidolon. Any magic item slot the eidolon is using they can't use, and several abilities the eidolon can have are restricted to specific types and levels -- be sure to check their math on point buying too (besides checking the rest of the stat math too).
Eidolons are very vunerable to banishing magic as well as things like holy word and blasphemy -- clerics are surprisingly effective against eidolons.
Hitting the summoner with spells that cause unconsciousness and such is generally effective as well so you can look at that angle too.
Also make sure you aren't trying to use single threat encounters -- you are going to want to have multiple creatures of multiple strengths to keep the eidolon from being able to focus on a single thing. Eidolons (and parties) are a lot less effective when they have to worry about attacks from multiple angles and monsters.
Eidolons tend to have weak will saves and not so high hit points, so things that directly target those will help. Consider the lowly magic missile spell -- coming from several apprentices that can really cut in on his hit points. If they have a cleric with them blowing out some negative energy you can give the whole party problems at the same time too.
" Any magic item slot the eidolon is using they can't use,"
I don't think I follow...??
Check the class description. Due to the connection the Eidolon and Summoner have, it interferes with magical item slots. So if the Summoner wore an amulet, the Eidolon could not also wear an amulet. The same goes for the rest of the magic item slots (rings, boots, cloaks etc.)
Hm... I'm thinking that's probably a bit high and I don't think the eidolon can have DR yet.
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Going from memory, which is cloudy at best,
level 7
quad leg
pounce
pincers
and maybe DR?
it looks like a centaur/wimic just not large sized.
A 7th level summoner can't give his eidolon DR, it's a 9th level evolution.
Also, how does it have pincers? You said it's a quadruped, and for pincers you need arms. Does it have the arms evolution? Did he pay for that?
I would do a serious audit of the eidolon.
Alright so I can get a 30 fairly easily on the eidolon with what was mentioned now that I went through and reviewed it, so I could see mid 30's without too much problem for the eidolon, however I've gotten better by that level with other classes so the AC shouldn't be too much of a problem... I'm a bit curious what the bard is doing for the eidolon's AC however knowing there is a bard in the party does help explain why the eidolon might be harsher than normal... bards have that effect.
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The only spell he ever cast was black tentacles.
After a haste buff and the bard his summon's AC was somewhere in the low 30s and had like 88hp or so
a 7th level summoner's eidolon has 6 d10 HD. Assuming Max HP, which is impressive, a Quadruped will have 66 HP, 72 if he gets the evolution that increases his Con by +2. I'm not sure how's he's get 88HP, even if he did have max HP, which is unlikely.
What's its attack routine look like? It may be mixing natural and manufactured weapons improperly (always an easy thing to do).
Well when I did the AC build I didn't grab DR (couldn't as pointed out) and didn't have points for more Con so those HP are out (even accounting for toughness), and his damage isn't going to be impressive or his will save.
the 88 might have been me counting the healing he did by pumping his own HP into it. Which is a free action, yes?
It is a free action, but that ability only works when the eidolon has taken enough damage to be "dead" (banished due to falling below negative Con mod hitpoints).
Was the summoner flying too? If the eidolon gvets too far from the summoner (100 feet) then the eidolon losses hp.
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actually they can have 3/evil DR from favored class aasimar.
The AC shouldn't be zomg amazing on them, also they do not roll HP, so at lvl 7, even at lvl 7, the most hp he should get barring buffs/items 21 from con modifier (four evolution points into con) and 42 from the 6 hp from d10s... which nets us a grand total of 63hp at lvl 7.
That's also using 4 of the 10 evolution points they have base. pounce uses another point, so 5/10 are used already.
Also if he's using a weapon, I'm assuming he's spent limb evolutions which now takes us to 7/10.
so barring him spending the extra evolution feats, he has a grand total of 3 points left and three feats on the evolution. Pincers are another point (and are secondary attacks) so now we're at 8/10 evolution points used.
If he's overpowered at lvl 7 with this set up so far, you're not doing it right, or the other teammates are stinking it up.
hit up the PRD and read the summoner entry, in particular the link ability, if the summoner is 100% feat away, reduce the eidolons hp by 50%
The ac of this beast, baring any items/feats/buffs should be 19, which isn't super at lvl 7 but not bad but not super either considering how easy lvl 1-2 tanks get that.
I had 95 crossbowmen holding actions if someone boarded their airship, the summon flew over (got wings for like 2 turns) I unloaded 95 shots with a +6 each and less than a 4th hit it.
So the Eidolon has an AC of 23. Its AC should be 10 + 2 (Dex for Quadruped) + 6 (Armor from levels), which makes 18. Even with an extra +1 Dodge bonus from Haste, its AC shouldn't be that high; where's the rest coming from?
And as noted above, at seventh level the Eidolon shouldn't have DR.
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Not sure what kind of weapon the critter is using, but remember he'll need more limbs to use more weapons if his current limbs are being used to walk on/pincer attacks etc. Which eats more evolution points.
use baddies with damage reduction. most of his many attacks will be useless unless they overcome that DR. alot of devils and demons have dr 10/cold iron etc. If he has a weapon that is bypassing it, disarm it/sunder it.
The CMD for most ediolons that are quads should be around str and dex 17 +6, +1 dodge +6 BAB. so the CMD will be not unobtainable for most baddies. 23.
I had 95 crossbowmen holding actions if someone boarded their airship, the summon flew over (got wings for like 2 turns) I unloaded 95 shots with a +6 each and less than a 4th hit it.So the Eidolon has an AC of 23. Its AC should be 10 + 2 (Dex for Quadruped) + 6 (Armor from levels), which makes 18. Even with an extra +1 Dodge bonus from Haste, its AC shouldn't be that high; where's the rest coming from?
Mage Armor, perhaps?
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Roberta, Aasimar racial perferred class gives dr evil/0.5xlvl
I would assume he's using the AC evolutions which add a total of +4 for two evolution points at lvl 7. Again though with my calculations above, he won't be a beast in combat, just okay and stout.
Summoners aren't that crazy good vanilla, some of the archetypes can cause more headaches, like synthesist or master summoner... the vanilla is just not that crazy good.
Honestly, the most effective thing you can do is to understand the Summoner, particularly the eidolon and how it was built... and then audit his.
I'm played a number of Summoners and Master Summoners and when well played they can be very potent, but thy're certainly not over-powered... there is, however, enough confusion regarding how eidolons are built that there are a great many broken builds out there giving us a bad name.
If nothing else, get him to write down his evolutions, his feats and his stats and post them here - people will be happy to take it apart for you.
Also, we rule that an eidolon can make weapon attacks based on its BAB and natural attacks based on what's been paid for in evolution points... but he can never exceed his maximum number of attacks regardless.
Mage Armor, perhaps?
Right, I forgot the Eidolon's armor bonus can be a natural armor bonus instead. Nevermind then.
Roberta, Aasimar racial perferred class gives dr evil/0.5xlvl
And that explains that too (sorry, not familiar with all the ARG's alternate favored class options yet).
Though medium light crossbows dealing 1d8 damage on a hit should still hit for an average of 2.25 damage per hit, right? Which, okay, isn't that much, but a single volley of 95 of those should still eat right through the Eidolon's and Summoner's HP even if three-quarters of them miss, and a second volley should get rid of it entirely.
Evolution surge could account for some of the points being off, but I suspect some of the good attacking could be due to sword/pincer/pincer without the -5 for the natural attacks, not to mention using limbs to both wield and pinch.
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Summoners are just awful unless a crapload of oversight is done.
They're one of the most complicated classes, building them is subject to tons of opportunities for mistakes and cheating, and they stomp all over the action economy.
It's terrible because in the hands of an inexperienced player, tons of mistakes and errors are going to make them overpowered.
In the hands of an experienced player, tons of cheese and over optimization is going to make them overpowered.
Either way, you're borked.
what about the eidolon was buffed by the rest of the party?
Mage armor, shield of faith, barkskin, +4 Dex, +4Con, Shield other and you have +12 armor more a crapload of more HP and half the damage goes to the cleric or paladin. An voila its not that bad anymore. The PCs keep track of it and even said so and you didn´t notice it.