The way they are presented, it seems fairly clear that people know what sorcerers are and more or less accept them, but what about witches and summoners? When a summoner realizes that he can call forth this creature that he feels this deep, personal connection to, does he think, oh, I must be a Summoner,or does he wonder how he was able to do such a thing? Or did he get trained by someone else for the sole purpose of learning how to call an Eidolon? Same question for witches, are they common enough that a spellcaster that seems to talk to her familiar/nothing apparent is assumed to be a witch? Or would they more likely be mistaken for a druid or a slightly off wizard? The question becomes even more relevant since both are considered self taught for the purpose of age.
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in the advanced players guide, and I know the blood of angels and blood of fiends books talk about how common they are among those races. I think if you looked through all of them you could see how common they were over all. It think varies a lot during the different races how common or what they would think about it.
I think witches are pretty common. As for summoners the only culture that seems to have them in their lore is Sarkoris with the god callers.
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The APG kind of covers what the different races think about summoners and witches, but mostly from an adventurer's point of view. Witches are common, and are more frequently found in areas with less "civilization" (areas which, if they see a sorcerer or wizard, will likely accuse them of being witches. Summoners seem very rare in Golarion (I've only seen a few in PFS scenarios), and they're usually described as something mysterious and unknown.
Part of the choir here. In Varisia, outside the cities, Linnorn Kings, Mammoth Lords, Numeria, etc. Arcane casters are sorcerers or witches.(And bards.) A person from these areas probably doesn't distinguish between the two. They both rely on mysterious powers.(Bloodlins/patrons.) Likewise, someone from the civilized nations, Chelix, Andoran, Taldor, etc, probably doesn't distinguish between arcane casters from these areas, unless they have an academic background in magic. They're all savage sorcerers/witches out there. In civilized country we have those who study, wizards, and a few individuals with innate talents, sorcerers, but they are nothing like the savages.
As for Summoners, I admit to being highly influenced by the Lost Kingdoms: Sarkoris entry, they seem like something even more primitive. These are the stone-age shamans who command the spirit world. I see them among the Shoanti, Kallid(World-Wound/Mendev), Mwangi, and Erutaki. Even the Varisians find them a bit old-school, and probably link them to fallen empires and powers beyond mortal understanding.
Civilized areas, you seem like a normal magic user, sorcerer if they had to guess. That is until they see you summon some clearly unnatural creature that hangs around, and around, and holy crap this thing isn't disappearing like they usually do! Weird! Really weird!
I wouldn't be surprised if you could count the number of Summoners in the Inner Sea on one or two hands. Maybe 4 hands. They are at the same level of rarity as Gunslingers, although I suspect that there are more Gunslingers by a bit.
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I would hazard a guess, the APG 20 level classes are pretty rare in the Inner sea area.
and as was previously posted up thread, people would not distinguish between arcane caster tyepes and probably "shamen" or cleric types.
I would hazzard a guess that in Irrisien, witches are the most common arcane caster class.
Perhaps in Cheliax, in Egoran, they might have specialized casters that focus on summoning or summoners.
I guess we know in that grand duchy in the Manna waste, whose name eludes me at the moment, is thick with gunslingers, but they are extremely rare elsewhere.
I suppose in Thuvia, and Rahadom there would be a prevalence of alchemists.
Otherwise, I think those classes would be extremly rare.
I think this would extend to the ninja and samurai as well.
The Magus on the other hand, seems to be a bit more common.
Pardon my interrupting, but I want to ask if I am right in guessing that the book Lost Kingdoms has some further information on the summoner class?
Pardon my interrupting, but I want to ask if I am right in guessing that the book Lost Kingdoms has some further information on the summoner class?
Yes. The Sarkoris entry in Lost Kingdoms has a fair bit on how summoners functioned there, giving a us nice juicy fluff details. The grand story of how the World-Wound was opened even has a summoner as one of the triune that helped start the mess. Highly recommend it as, to the best of my knowledge, it's the only source of background/campaign info for summoners in Golarion.
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I've always thought that places where wizardry is more common (areas in Taldor, Quadira, Absolom, and Cheliax) would view witchcraft with suspicion, as it can't be academically understood so much as personally discovered, despite witches and wizards generally being as smart as one another. Also, witchcraft is more subtle (hexes are Supernatural, not Spell-like), so the more curious or suspicious wizards could become irate by the facts that you're using healing and nature magic in ways they can't understand!
Depending on which patron (matron?) your witch picks and its nature (your familiar has a connection to the Fey/Abyss/Empyrial/Tapestry/Something), it's easy to instill the fear of the unknown, or the joys of learning with a mentor that doesn't even have to be the same species as you are.
Also, I imagine witchcraft would be trusted and valued in Rahadoum, where that and the medicine of laughter the bards have would be the only state-approved magic healing.
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I wish Paizo just knuckled down and carved out a realistic niche for the Summoner in Golarion. Settings like Eberron thrived because it seriously considered the appeal and placement of artificers, psions, psionic warriors in the world setting, and used the classes integration in the setting to create a richer world.
I feel like Paizo has ignored some of the non 3.5 classes placement in Golarion. There could be so much more discussed about relations between witches, great stories about what happens when Inquisitors get together, books worth of stuff to explore for the summoner and their weird Eidolons and world changing technological development of the gunslinger. But it hasn't happened yet. Which is sad.
I don't think witches are that uncommon. In the world where magic is such a huge part of their life and so common, the different 'types' of magic would likely be seen as different routes to the same goal. Magus, Sorcerer, Druid, Witch. They're different roads to the same end goal.
To those that CAN work magic. "THEIR" way of working magic is no doubt the best.
For those that can NOT do magic, all the magical people are a bit weird. Some are born with magical abilities. Some get them from the gods. Some get them through intense study. The Witch gets theirs from a pact with "Something". I doubt people would see it much different from Clerics. Other than it's just a differing empowering agent.
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I would think witches are more common then most spellcasters. It seems they get chosen by something or wish for power and something grants it or its inherent or something. Witches have been in every culture for centuries. Just think how many people you've seen talking to their "pets".
Summoners I see being more like conjurers who got noticed by an outsider that took a shine to them. Or in the case of assimar and tieflings a relative decides to be protective. Whch I think summoners would be more rare.
Yes, it seems summoners are quite rare. The only one I have seen in print in Golarion is Anya Jeggare. (Rival Guide)
I am hoping the Npc Codex has a summoner or two.
what do people think of witches
in game, varies.
*There are the local "witches" that heal people and cure what ails them.*there are those that just think they are diabolical
*extremely varied by region
we've never had a summoner in any of our groups. So....pretty rare!
I actually view witch as one of the more common arcane casters now. I've never been a fan of the adept, and the witch is in many ways a PC-class-level adept. The village wise woman or the humanoid shaman are both quite likely to be a witch in any game I run. It's easier to make a deal with a patron entity than it is to study magic as a wizard, and powerful enough bloodlines to spawn a sorcerer probably aren't all that common.
Summoners are about as common as conjuration-focused wizards used to be, and any character of that concept has about a 50-50 chance of being a summoner rather than a wizard, depending on if he wants a powerful pet or more powerful magic himself. Cheliax, I'm guessing, would have quite a few with infernal eidolons. The Worldwound probably also has quite a few. The Arabian Nights area (forget the name now) should probably have a whole lot of summoners with bound genies for eidolons.
Creative Director
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In Golarion... Of the APG races, cavaliers, alchemists, witches, oracles, and inquisitors are all common enough that the average person does indeed know about them. Whether or not an average person can tell the difference between a witch and a sorcerer, or a cleric or an oracle, or a fighter or a cavalier remains to be seen, but they know they all exist.
Gunslingers are pretty well known as well; although they're not common, they're pretty outlandish and the stories and rumors of those who do exist do well at spreading the word.
Summoners are not all that well known, and most folks would just assume a summoner is a wizard or sorcerer, and would generally assume the eidolon is some sort of weird nonesuch monster or strange outsider or the like depending on its appearance. Summoners are by far the least common class you'll see NPCs have in Golarion.
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Thanks for the thorough answer!
Random bit from Wake of the Watcher:
Cheers!
Landon
Our campaign has a witch PC and a summoner PC. The witch seeks out the local coven whenever we enter a new region, so witches have been established as fairly common, even in one area where witchcraft is illegal. The only other summoner that the summoner PC has ever met is his father, who was of extraplanar origin. The DM has hinted that other summoners may exist in the setting, but so far we have not met them.
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In my campaign, summoners are all but non-existent. They were prevelant in the ancient past, but have been pretty much purged.
For the summoner in my group, her powers manifested at a young age. She always kind of felt out of place. The people around her were never angry or afraid in a "pitchfork and torch" kind of way, but always talked about her and treated her as "that girl". So she left town to discover herself and to either start a new life somewhere else or accept the old way of life and go back home.
As far as her eidolon, she doesn't like the curiosity and scrutiny that follows them, and so rarely calls her while in civilized areas.
In my game summoners are rare. Even having played one I still say they're rare.
Most people don't make the distinction between summoners and other casters, at least until they see the eidolon. And then how civilians react is based on how the eidolon is built and how it interacts with the summoner.
Monster f***er.
Monster tamer.
Demon caller.
Spirit caller.
Wizard with a pet robot.
Knight on a weird steed.
One o' them strange outsider-lovers.
Those two really close friends over there.
All dependent on what the eidolon looks like and how it and the summoner portray themselves in public.
There are four or five named summoners in Isles of the Shackles.