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If this is for home play: check with your DM cause with home play almost anything can go. My personal belief is that the races are the exemplars of that Archetype, others may belong to it but be few and far between. This is also known as "Don't let the rules get in the way of the game" ...
I would agree with Chip McKenzie and the rest here, that a Racial Archetype embodies every aspect of class features uniquely characterized by a certain race. I call to mind the Venerable AD&D 2nd Edition Paladin, with the following requirements:
Ability Requirements: Strength 12, Constitution 9, Wisdom 13, Charisma 17
Prime Requisites: Strength, Charisma
Races Allowed: Human
This stood out in the world design, and made the whole more enjoyable because of the differences and exclusivity.
Golarion also is creating the same marvelous effect by making Racial Archetype class features limited and restricted. I think this is the very best part of the Advanced Race Guide and should only be overruled by DM fiat with story / world design.
Yeah, GM fiat, be the race, or have the Racial Heritage feat.
Those are your options.
I am probably risking getting struck with lightening from the forum gods for awaking this thread. After looking over my books, particularly for the sections you reference and the FAQ I have come to belive you are correct. In my case, a simple GM fiat with a little role playing explanation as to why, be the race, or be human and take the Racial Heritage feat. I think an asimar can get their by taking the Scion of Humanity option and then the Racial Heritage feat but that just gets a little wierd.
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Actually, what the ARG says is
" Typically, only members of the section’s race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order, though such options rarely interact with the racial traits or alternate racial traits of that race."
Typically =/= Always, so if your GM is fine you could take archetypes from other races.
This is the correct answer IMO.
The book notes to GMs that other races could very well use those archetypes with their discretion.
The thing is, many of those archetypes aren't particularly tied into race at the root level. Many are generic enough and have wide enough appeal and cause to be found amongst other races that when they were announced in the blog, many GMs were already planning on making them more widely available with their assigned race simply being the originators of the archetype in question.
Take Redeemer for example. ANY paladin from an outcast race could have ample reason to take that option, as could any paladin from more accepted races possessed of great empathy.
Treesinger is another example. That was actually the one that a lot of people took issue with being for elves only, because plant companions just worked for a great many other races, and possibly even more for gnomes than for elves.
The only cases where I'd keep an archetype exclusive to a race is if that archetype specifically built off of a race's abilities.
Actually, what the ARG says is
"Typically, only members of the section’s race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order, though such options rarely interact with the racial traits or alternate racial traits of that race."
Typically =/= Always, so if your GM is fine you could take archetypes from other races.
Emphasis mine. I say to hell with the FAQ, myself.
Stuff like this is one of the reasons I remove racial restrictions from almost everything ever, except for options that explicitly require specific racial abilities as prerequisites.
Stuff like this is one of the reasons I remove racial restrictions from almost everything ever, except for options that explicitly require specific racial abilities as prerequisites.
I do the same. One of the few racial archetypes that is locked into a race is the Drow Cavern Sniper.
Ability Requirements: Strength 12, Constitution 9, Wisdom 13, Charisma 17
Prime Requisites: Strength, Charisma
Races Allowed: HumanThis stood out in the world design, and made the whole more enjoyable because of the differences and exclusivity.
Golarion also is creating the same marvelous effect by making Racial Archetype class features limited and restricted. I think this is the very best part of the Advanced Race Guide and should only be overruled by DM fiat with story / world design.
And damned well will I fiat the hell out of that stupid old rule. Only a racist or human supremacist would say that Paladins can only be human (Good as an alignment isn't restricted to humanity), and such characters would be pretty evil in my campaigns, and thus unfit to be Paladins. Hell, elves and dwarves have a "Usually Good" alignment, which humans don't.
Well seeing as Elf-blood and Racial Heritage both have the same language one can not work if the other does not. They both use the word "effects". To say that "effects" when used in one is different the when used in the other is pretty blatantly trying to bend the words/rules to your own opinion.
That combined with fact that its says "Typically" and not must I can't honestly see how any reasonable person would think otherwise.
Effects require cause.
If feats and classes are effects, then what is the cause?
You are more then welcome to take that stance if you like but then both of them don't work. I don't know if you are having a problem reading the feat or what but BOTH say effects.
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It does not state any such thing. It gives examples of what "effects" means. It flat out says "For example" It does not say "Effects AND blah blah blah" it says "effects... for example blah blah blah"
The wording is not unclear in the slightest. So for one to work and the other not the wording needs errata on one other the other.
Really the idea that this shouldn't work is very imbalanced. A human can give up its feat to be a better half-elf then a half-elf? Then why even have the half races exactly?
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The Adopted trait will let you take anything that the adopting race gets, with the exception of abilities that build off of a racial ability - you couldn't take a feat that enhances darkvision just because you were adopted by dwarves, for example.
No, actually the Adopted trait has nothing do with racial traits. That's actually a place where people get confused though. Racial traits are things ALL members of the race have. Race traits are the optional character traits introduced originally in the APG. Adopted allows you to immediately select a RACE TRAIT from the race that adopted you. So for example I made a tiefling who took "Adopted" to allow her to take "Masterful Demeanor" which is normally a human only trait that gives you a +3 trait bonus to Intimidate vs. all non-humans. (Further justification for that specific trait, was she had the Fiendish Facade feat that let her pose as a human, so she kept her tiefling traits hidden most of the time)