This came across my desk today, it seems pretty right on in my opinion. What do you all think?
"The fact is, there are millions if not hundreds of millions of people in the Arab world who share the vision of Osama Bin Laden.
No matter how many times you apologize to them, no matter how many idiotic diplomats you send over there who think they're so wonderful because they went to Berkeley, one thing is clear: They only understand power, and they see that you're weak."
A German daily paper writes today:
"Three years after Obama's speech in Cairo which was supposed to initiate a new beginning in the Middle East, the United States now has even less support in the region than before.
"Naked hatred is raging against the country that millions of people regard as a symbol of freedom.
"When U.S. flags burn, embassies are vandalized and diplomats are murdered, it is an attack on the West and not just America.
"We rooted for the demonstrators at Tahrir Square, and many of us have longed to see democracy in the Arab nations. But democracy includes honoring the lives of fellow humans."
But we know those people can't honor the lives of fellow humans, especially infidels.
They used Obama. They used Hillary. They used the ambassador to get where they are.
And then they killed him."
Cherry picked, but charming as ever.
This came across my desk today, it seems pretty right on in my opinion. What do you all think?Oh hey look you're quoting Michael Savage. So I'll get right on taking that as seriously as it deserves.
For those who aren't familiar with Michael Savage:
Right now, even people sitting on the fence would like George Bush to drop a nuclear weapon on an Arab country. They don't even care which one it would be. I can guarantee you -- I don't need to go to Mr. Schmuck [pollster John] Zogby and ask him his opinion. I don't need anyone's opinion. I'll give you my opinion, because I got a better stethoscope than those fools. It's one man's opinion based upon my own analysis. The most -- I tell you right now -- the largest percentage of Americans would like to see a nuclear weapon dropped on a major Arab capital. They don't even care which one. They'd like an indiscriminate use of a nuclear weapon. They want this over with. One thing people cannot live with, which is an undefined, limitless conflict, which is what we have now. They can't take it. They want this war over with, and they want it ended like the war against Japan. They'd like Big Boy dropped on one of the little cities over there. They don't care where. They don't care any more. The American people have had it up to here with this garbage.In fact, Christianity has been one of the great salvations on planet Earth. It's what's necessary in the Middle East. Others have written about it, I think these people need to be forcibly converted to Christianity but I'll get here a little later, I'll move up to that. It's the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings.I'm going to give you one further example from my background as an anthropologist just so that you -- I'm trying to put context on this because you can go crazy if you don't have the context on this, because I'm going to lead up to something of what we must do to these primitives....
Savage makes Limbaugh seem fair-minded and civil. He makes Beck look sane. Aretas, you do not do your argument any favors by quoting him.
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"Naked hatred is raging against the country that millions of people regard as a symbol of freedom.
Considering there are over 7 Billion people on the world, and about 314 Million in the US, your quoted text doesn't seem like something to brag about.
The odd thing is, on Sept 12, 2001, we had the support of the entire world. We squandered that by showing that we would rather torture people and shot up native weddings from aircraft then spread freedom and democracy.
By all means complain loudly about oppressive regimes in the Middle East, and elsewhere, but notice that we support just about every one of them.
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It's very easy to lump an entire group of people of similar ethnicity, religion, and culture into one stereotype and hate them all with disregard to those that may believe differently. For every negative aspect, there are positive people that do believe in change for the good of all.
I have met Catholics that defended gay marriage. I have met Muslims that believed in peace and genuinely loved America. I've met atheists that respect other religions. I've met black people and Hispanics that went against the gang culture despite growing up surrounded in it. I have met the good and the bad. I've met Westburo Baptists at a protest of a funeral. I had a Jewish man tell me I'm going to hell because I'm Puerto Rican. I've been beat by a group of white people for dating their cousin. I've been spat on by other Puerto Ricans for not being "Latin enough" and I've fist fought side by side with my gay best friend against several Baptists that hated him.
I can't bring myself to hate. It's the easy way out and life has taught me that anything worth doing will be difficult. And honestly, it doesn't make us any better.
When I look past the put downs of your replies all I hear is that the violence is b/c of the youtube video? Ok, thanks for the opinions.
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I don't think anyone insulted you at all. I didn't think that providing alternative points of view, debunking a tabloid's credentials, and generally telling you what we think fairly politely towards you would be considered insulting...
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"The fact is, there are millions if not hundreds of millions of people in the Arab world who share the vision of Osama Bin Laden.
True. In Mauritania, hardly the most muslim of countries, people had stickers with him with planes behind him, lit up like a saint. I also had random people who heard i was from new york tell me that it wasn't real islam to do that. Oddly enough when you have democracy the first group do get some say in their government. If you value democracy you'll simply have to accept the fact that some people, for reasons both rational and irrational, don't like us.
No matter how many times you apologize to them, no matter how many idiotic diplomats you send over there who think they're so wonderful because they went to Berkeley, one thing is clear: They only understand power, and they see that you're weak."
Untrue, puerile, disingenuous, and probably a jab at the president. They're ticked in part because we're stronger than they are, and keep ramming that point home by keeping totalitarian regimes in power to secure our interests. Mind you, if it wasn't our totalitarian regime it would probably be either russias or irans totalitarian regime, but people are entitled to be somewhat rosey eyed about the future.
"Three years after Obama's speech in Cairo which was supposed to initiate a new beginning in the Middle East, the United States now has even less support in the region than before.
Than before the speech? I'd imagine so. Than during the bush years? Noooot so much.
"Naked hatred is raging against the country that millions of people regard as a symbol of freedom.
Right. Because we see it as a symbol of freedom.. for us. They see it as the force of oppression... for them.
"When U.S. flags burn, embassies are vandalized and diplomats are murdered, it is an attack on the West and not just America.
Probably. I don't think they can tell "the west" apart much better than americans can tell "that middle east place" apart. Given the collusion between the international corporations that drive most of our foreign policy i wonder myself if there's much difference.
"We rooted for the demonstrators at Tahrir Square, and many of us have longed to see democracy in the Arab nations. But democracy includes honoring the lives of fellow humans."
Nope. Pure democracy sometimes means that 51% of people are going to vote to violate your personal liberties. Democracy is not a pancea for all of the worlds problems.
That doesn't mean its not worth it.
But we know those people can't honor the lives of fellow humans, especially infidels.
Its not like we exactly honor their lives. 5 dead Americans is news. Five hundred dead Iraqi's is Tuesday.
They used Obama. They used Hillary. They used the ambassador to get where they are.
And then they killed him."
dishonest jibe at the president. Any other politician would have had the exact same security in place.
Hey, I was just looking at Michael Savage's website, and lookie what I found linked from the second page:
This just came across Aretas's desk today, huh.The mass-circulation daily Bild writes:
"Naked hatred is raging against a country that many people in the world regard as a symbol of freedom. When US flags burn, embassies are vandalized, and diplomats are murdered, it is an attack on the West, and not just America!"
"We rooted for the demonstrators at Tahrir Square, and many of us have longed to see democracy in the Arab nations. But democracy includes honoring the lives of fellow humans."
"The turmoil in Libya, Cairo, and Bangladesh is a return to the Middle Ages, when people were beheaded and stoned to death. No pathetic anti-Islam film can justify hate-filled murder.""The West must be tough on terrorism. And it must show that it can differentiate between rabble-rousers and peaceful Muslims."
I think this is the important thing to take home from this.
Savage makes Limbaugh seem fair-minded and civil. He makes Beck look sane. Aretas, you do not do your argument any favors by quoting him.
I think Savage is the man.
I'm not trying to gain favor here. Savage is not the topic, its the most recent violence in the arab & muslim world. Again what are your thoughts on the topic?
Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.
When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
When I look past the put downs of your replies all I hear is that the violence is b/c of the youtube video? Ok, thanks for the opinions.
Maybe because of the idiotic and purposefully offensive Youtube video, surely because of a background of decades of anti-arab and pro-Israel US foreign policies.
They don't hate your freedoms, they hate your policies. Forget the neocon BS.
Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
I wonder what he has to say about the jewish.
Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
I've heard him call for nukes with mine own ears.
Aretas, turn the radio off. Those people, by definition, do not have your interest at heart.
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I wonder what he has to say about the jewish.Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
Savage? from my experience he is like most christians and damn near worships jewish people and isreal.
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Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
I've heard him call for nukes with mine own ears.
Aretas, turn the radio off. Those people, by definition, do not have your interest at heart.
Most anyone in the media that mentions politics don't have your best interest at heart, they are looking to increase power, ratings, money etc by telling you what they think you need to hear to just to whatever cause they want. on all sides.
background of decades of anti-arab and pro-Israel US foreign policies.
30th anniversary of the massacre at Sabra and Shatila going on now.
Click here to see what the Christians and the Jews can still get up to when they put their minds to it.
Savage? from my experience he is like most christians and damn near worships jewish people and isreal.I wonder what he has to say about the jewish.Again what are your thoughts on the topic?I think you shouldn't credit comments on the Middle East from someone who calls Muslims "non-people". The rest of my thoughts on the Middle East are in the other thread we already have on the subject.When did Savage call all muslims "non-people" He was talking about the head cutters, genital mutilaters, the islamo nazis. Taking him out of context is vile.
Sounds odd, considering I've mostly seen christians who hate jewish people.
Can you flag an entire thread?
I would think that flagging the first post over and over again would do the trick. If that's your thing.
Can you flag an entire thread?
Why would you?
what's the other thread that's being referenced? I'd like to read that one.
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There's a formula to these threads.
1)Aretas says something absolutely heinous, usually coming close to quoting some of the most vile hate groups that are active, or utter lunatics like in this thread.
2)People politely (as possible) point out that his views are clearly based on hate, bigotry, and eschew reason for violence as the solution.
3)Aretas name calls people who point out that his views are absolutely despicable as, themselves, horrible people.
4)Thread gets locked.
*taps toe*
There's a formula to these threads.
1)Aretas says something absolutely heinous, usually coming close to quoting some of the most vile hate groups that are active, or utter lunatics like in this thread.
2)People politely (as possible) point out that his views are clearly based on hate, bigotry, and eschew reason for violence as the solution.
3)Aretas name calls people who point out that his views are absolutely despicable as, themselves, horrible people.
4)Thread gets locked.*taps toe*
Nothing about the post is vile and heinous. If you believe that I can't imagine how you beat out 1 million sperm.
I'm not going to feed the posters that are a distraction to the topic.
Senior Software Developer
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I can't imagine how you beat out 1 million sperm
That is pretty much the working definition of "personal insult." Aretas, we've asked you before to maybe consider stepping back from the political threads if you can't participate without using insults and name-calling. Please rethink your participation here.
If you believe that I can't imagine how you beat out 1 million sperm.
Is that a euphemism for masturbation, or is my mind just stuck at a 6th grade level?
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If you believe that I can't imagine how you beat out 1 million sperm.Is that a euphemism for masturbation, or is my mind just stuck at a 6th grade level?
Is it any wonder that the world looks to the closed-by-default sub-forum at the bottom of the list on an RPG site for expert analysis of the world's most intractable problems?
Hi.
This is my first post here on the boards and I probably should have picked a less volatile thread but Aretas can you clarify what exactly is your opinion on the matter.
Distilling your original post I see a lot of rhetoric but little substance.
The first sentence seems to imply that the violence exist because "millions or hundreds of millions of people" simply hate the US." Which doesn't really give much of a reason. Why do they hate?
Your second sentence seems to imply that diplomacy will not work and that the brave American diplomats that died were some how idiots for trying to bring peace to people "who only understand power". Now I know this is not your stance on the issue as it was you that started the Thread on this page honoring their sacrifice.
Please clarify. I think that they "rhetoric" that you choose to post is getting in the way of people understand what exactly you mean.
-TM
Hee hee!
That was awesome, Citizen Meatrace.
Is that a euphemism for masturbation, or is my mind just stuck at a 6th grade level?
I think you're giving yourself a lot of credit there.... :)
Hi.
This is my first post here on the boards and I probably should have picked a less volatile thread but Aretas can you clarify what exactly is your opinion on the matter.
Distilling your original post I see a lot of rhetoric but little substance.The first sentence seems to imply that the violence exist because "millions or hundreds of millions of people" simply hate the US." Which doesn't really give much of a reason. Why do they hate?
Your second sentence seems to imply that diplomacy will not work and that the brave American diplomats that died were some how idiots for trying to bring peace to people "who only understand power". Now I know this is not your stance on the issue as it was you that started the Thread on this page honoring their sacrifice.
Please clarify. I think that they "rhetoric" that you choose to post is getting in the way of people understand what exactly you mean.
-TM
TM you are asking Trolls not to Troll... Aretas gets a little buzz of joy when people get upset at what he posts...
He probably believes what he posts, which is sad and shows a lack of critical thinking, empathy, historical and cultural awareness and compassion.
Hi.
This is my first post here on the boards and I probably should have picked a less volatile thread but Aretas can you clarify what exactly is your opinion on the matter.
Distilling your original post I see a lot of rhetoric but little substance.The first sentence seems to imply that the violence exist because "millions or hundreds of millions of people" simply hate the US." Which doesn't really give much of a reason. Why do they hate?
Your second sentence seems to imply that diplomacy will not work and that the brave American diplomats that died were some how idiots for trying to bring peace to people "who only understand power". Now I know this is not your stance on the issue as it was you that started the Thread on this page honoring their sacrifice.
Please clarify. I think that they "rhetoric" that you choose to post is getting in the way of people understand what exactly you mean.
-TM
TM you are asking Trolls not to Troll... Aretas gets a little buzz of joy when people get upset at what he posts...
He probably believes what he posts, which is sad and shows a lack of critical thinking, empathy, historical and cultural awareness and compassion.
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. :)
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. :)
See, to me, assuming that he's just trying to get a rise out of people is the benefit of the doubt, because the other option is that he believes the crap he spews.
Because clearly nuking schoolhouses and converting people at gunpoint is the way to go.
Move along people...nothing to see here.
I can't imagine how you beat out 1 million spermThat is pretty much the working definition of "personal insult." Aretas, we've asked you before to maybe consider stepping back from the political threads if you can't participate without using insults and name-calling. Please rethink your participation here.
Your right, that was in insult. I'm better than that.
I also see that a blind eye is turned to Meatrace who called my post:"absolutely heinous, usually coming close to quoting some of the most vile hate groups that are active, or utter lunatics like in this thread."
Hi.
This is my first post here on the boards and I probably should have picked a less volatile thread but Aretas can you clarify what exactly is your opinion on the matter.
Distilling your original post I see a lot of rhetoric but little substance.The first sentence seems to imply that the violence exist because "millions or hundreds of millions of people" simply hate the US." Which doesn't really give much of a reason. Why do they hate?
Your second sentence seems to imply that diplomacy will not work and that the brave American diplomats that died were some how idiots for trying to bring peace to people "who only understand power". Now I know this is not your stance on the issue as it was you that started the Thread on this page honoring their sacrifice.
Please clarify. I think that they "rhetoric" that you choose to post is getting in the way of people understand what exactly you mean.
-TM
I'm not sure why "they" hate precisely. I can speculate. Is it Democracy vs Sharia law? Is it that they see our culture and are trying to repel it. Do they hate us for supporting guys like Saddam, Khaddafi, Mubarek, the Shah in the 70's? Do they hate us b/c we depose who we want, when we want? I read that Carter was very idealistic and wanted to end the brutal regime of the Shah. Well that only ushered in Khomenei in the power vaccuum that ensued, along with an islamic theocracy.
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"PWEEET!" Time out Children! Let yourselves be enlightened.
All religion and Law has a common ground from which it emerged
INDOEUROPEAN ORIGINS OF RELIGION: There are three concepts of Religion here: The Patriarch (where religious beliefs are ingrained in the idea of the head of the family as the spiritual authority and the idea that the 'chief god' - a Sun God at that - is the ultimate head of their family); Faith which involves personal spiritual reflection on the good memories of one's own life - the root-word governing this refers to the childhood memory of light through leaves of an ash tree; and Prophecy (Ritual Singing). This gives us the Religious practices: Prophecy/Singing (Bard), Individual Faith (Druid), Patriarchy (Cleric of the Sun God).
INDOEUROPEAN RELIGIOUS/LEGAL OBLIGATIONS: The obligation of caring for Family Elders, Oaths & Pledges, Use of Boundary Markers, Compensation (The Obligation to pay for an injury), Burial of the Family Dead in Barrow Mounds.
Even though you would characterize the Kurgans as Evil monsters who threw children into pits for hungry dogs to fight over the facts would indicate something more civilized than ourselves.
We all come from that - and we can call each other uncompromising monsters who need to be exterminated but the fact is we have a common ground from which we all strayed.