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Alright so I got in a little debate the other night over whether a parrot could use a wand with use magic device or not.
As far as I could see I did not have any reason to believe it couldn't. After all to use a spell trigger item you simply need to be able to speak and parrots do. The parrot has a higher intelligence than a sorcerer I have elsewhere even, so it is real speech not animal mimicry. In the using wand section it appeared all that was needed was the ability to hold the wand and point it in a general direction. I don't see how a parrot couldn't do that...
It really seemed to anger someone who seemed to think the entire point of taking improved familiar was so they could use a skill like that, but certain familiars are just capable of skills others aren't. Most familiars cannot use magic device do to the inability to speak. Many cannot use disable device due to a lack of digit dexterity, but I would let a monkey do that.
I was told there was some official ruling on this and was really hoping someone could point me to that. Until then I think a parrot is fine using a wand. It does make it a bigger target for an enemy to take out.
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SQWAK! - POLLY WANTS A LIGHTNING BOLT! - SQWAK!
The parrot has a higher intelligence than a sorcerer I have elsewhere even, so it is real speech not animal mimicry.
I disagree with this. Parrot's can't talk - they can learn to copy sounds they hear. Even with the enhanced intelligence of being a familiar doesn't grant them the ability to speak.. if it did then any familiar could do it.. they all have larynxes..
That being said, a parrot familiar could learn to mimic a particular word or phrase just like any other - probably even faster since it is smarter.
Saying the word is all you need to activate a wand with a successful UMD check. As long as UMD is a skill that does not "remain beyond the familiar's ability to use" (the DMs call I would guess) than it should work.
So.. I agree with you.. but not for the reasons you gave.
go figure.
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.
Language is irrelevant. If it can hold the wand and maneuver it to be pointed in a direction it can attempt to activate it.
I think the issue of being able to aim the wand/control it is an issue, even if the bird can talk.
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The parrot has a higher intelligence than a sorcerer I have elsewhere even, so it is real speech not animal mimicry.I disagree with this. Parrot's can't talk - they can learn to copy sounds they hear. Even with the enhanced intelligence of being a familiar doesn't grant them the ability to speak.. if it did then any familiar could do it.. they all have larynxes..
A parrot get the ability to speak as ravens do in pathfinder, it is a language. It is not just copying sounds if you are able to have meaning behind the sounds. Sides at some point we are all just copying sounds to make noises.
The parrot can also read though, and scratch words in the dirt if it wanted cause it has a language known. (not just the sound mimicry ability)
(checks calendar to see if it's april the first)
Okay I'll bite. So where does one get the idea an animal ca use the «use magic device» skill....... What's next? Appraise?
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(checks calendar to see if it's april the first)
Okay I'll bite. So where does one get the idea an animal ca use the «use magic device» skill....... What's next? Appraise?
A familiar isn't an animal, it's a magical beast. As such, it is much smarter than a normal animal. It also gets to use its master's skill ranks, so if you're a wizard who took ranks in UMD, your familiar can use it just fine. The issue with familiars using wands is not their intelligence, it's the physical act of "wielding" the wand. If they don't have hands, they can't wield wands. Monkeys do, so they can, but birds don't, so they can't. The only way I would rule that a bird familiar can wield a wand, if you're sticking to RAW, is if the caster chose the Evolved Familiar feat and gave the bird a tentacle. I imagine a tentacle as being dextrous enough to wield a wand, so I'd allow that.
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A familiar isn't an animal, it's a magical beast. As such, it is much smarter than a normal animal. It also gets to use its master's skill ranks, so if you're a wizard who took ranks in UMD, your familiar can use it just fine. The issue with familiars using wands is not their intelligence, it's the physical act of "wielding" the wand. If they don't have hands, they can't wield wands. Monkeys do, so they can, but birds don't, so they can't. The only way I would rule that a bird familiar can wield a wand, if you're sticking to RAW, is if the caster chose the Evolved Familiar feat and gave the bird a tentacle. I imagine a tentacle as being dextrous enough to wield a wand, so I'd allow that.(checks calendar to see if it's april the first)
Okay I'll bite. So where does one get the idea an animal ca use the «use magic device» skill....... What's next? Appraise?
Actually it doesn't have to weild it:
"To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area."
claws would pass as hands for a bird (thats what they hold things with).
claws would pass as hands for a bird (thats what they hold things with).
For parrots, their beak is also a hand (often more dextrous than their feet, which is saying something), though that would make command words difficult. I think the mass of the wand in question would be an issue, depending on the size of your parrot (they range from songbird size to the familiar macaw) and the composition of the wand.
Message to all my players.... Don't even think about it. ;-)
The only real problem with it that I'm aware of, is the question whether a familiar is considered "trained" in the skills its master has.
The forum's consensus is that they are.
The only real problem with it that I'm aware of, is the question whether a familiar is considered "trained" in the skills its master has.
The forum's consensus is that they are.
They are, definitely. From the PRD (sorry, don't know how to link it):
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.
So my son has a sorcerer/rogue with a raven familiar, which has ranks in sleight of hand. Very fitting for a raven, I thought.
Parrots don't have thumbs and can't wield a wand...
They can use their amazing perch ability on it but they can't wield it...
I'm sure all command words are real easy to say like "Cracker" and "Sqwark" and not "Alamphzamaquonk"
Get a monkey familiar and cast "Tongues" on it or even better get a Mephit with your Improved Familiar feat.
African Greys have been found to have intelligence similar to chimpanzees and dolphins.
Thanks for that little read, I really enjoyed it. :-)
Small dragons have used wand for long time. With there small little claw like hand. So I do not think Ravens or Parrots would not have any problem either.
Small dragons have used wand for long time. With there small little claw like hand. So I do not think Ravens or Parrots would not have any problem either.
See the important word?
Thumbs... very important...
What are familiars for?
Sincerely, beyond the wand thing; what use are they from 1st through 5th level? I'm not talking witches as the familiar IS the spellbook sort of. But for a run-of-the-mill wizard that picks an owl over a locket...what good is it?
Scouting? Maybe but many GMs I've run into debate this one since the familiar is so brittle and can't talk (for the most part). There are others (like myself) however that argue a 6 int plus the ability to have all the Wizard's skills enables them to fully understand language and other things around them, and thus can communicate to their masters through a variety of coded gestures, such as "chirp once for yes, twice for no."
Combat? Heck no says most. Many familiars are so small they have to enter the target's square to attack, can't provide a flanker and some have debated to me that these make it ineligible for Aid Another (though I don't know if it's RAW). Plus they're squishy meaning it's rather prohibitive to maintain buffs and resources to keep the thing running.
Skill Checks? Sorry Charlie; we're right back to the communication breakdown again. How is fluffy going to help you identify that dragon if it can't talk?
So really...WHAT are they good for? If I were to go by most of the nay-sayers on these forums if I wanted a classic fantasy wizard with a black cat familiar, I'd need to 1. be a witch, 2. mod it with a feat tax right off the bat, or 3. wait 5 levels for it to be able to actually be of use.
I think that's all bogus. Wands by RAW say 1. hold, 2. point. My cats at home can pick up and hold something in their teeth; if I can command them and they'd obediently respond with the intelligence of an 8 year old child I think (for MY homebrew anyway) that its reasonable to assume I could get the thing to take a drumstick, point its body and therefore the stick in its mouth at the target.
If there's an additional requirement for a command word then I missed that and I apologize, but I've ruled in favor of this in my game.
Why? Because having a pet paperweight made of glass that represents a good idea but doesn't actually contribute ANYTHING to the game stinks for wizards IMO.
I've also houseruled basic yes/no communication possible between master and familiar until 5th level, and ruled in favor of Aid Another for the purposes of the wizard using their own skills w/the animal present or if the PC is brave enough to send the little bugger into combat to help a friend.
Now I know some will say "it can deliver beneficial touch spells, it can deliver items to other PCs or visit these items upon enemies". These instances IMO are too situational to justify having 5 levels of one of your Class Features dedicated to them. Yes, these are nice perks but I feel that the Help with Skills is the most primary reason to have a familliar.
What the familiar gives yous is spelled out quite plainly in the rules text. It's up to you to decide it's worth.
So...Alertness. Got it. I'd say deliver touch spells but that's...I won't say useless but I will say "ill advised" though it is an option.
Why not just grant the PC 2 more feats? 1 - Alertness. 2 - Ranged touch spells (I don't know what that feat might be, though there's a cleric one that allows ranged healing floating around). Stagger the feats across 1st and 3rd level.
Then give them a talking animal at 5th level.
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The parrot using UMD is hardly unbalanced. For one thing at level ten it can only activate it less than 50% of the time and has a good chance of hurting itself.
Besides a parrot (or any bird for that matter) can grip a stick in its claw very well. If big enough of a bird can lift it.
also:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_parrot_claws_do
As I see it getting the language as a familiar means it is able to use magic devices. To balance this you get a familiar with less of a bonus to the master and one that isn't tremendously combat oriented. I mean appraise and linguistics though nice skills aren't normally considered the best out there. As compared to a dodo giving you +4 initiative, or a hawk helping with perception and being better in combat or at least delivering touch spells.
Are all familiars perfectly balanced, no of course not, but nor are all feats or sorcerer bloodlines.
Regarding thumbs, parrots basically have two thumbs on each foot since two of their toes face one way and two face the other way. They can grasp objects with their feet, and it is not difficult to find pictures of them standing on one foot eating a nut grasped in the other.
The main problem with a parrot using a wand is that the parrot familiar uses the stats of the raven familiar, which has a Charisma of 7. That's better than the Monkey's Charisma of 5 though, and the parrot wouldn't require Tongues to speak. Another problem would be if you're playing in PFS, where the rules for familiar are significantly more restrictive.