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I am in need of a advice here.
I am GMing AP for my players and I have some, I wouldn't call them problems, but it might prove to be somewhat difficult to handle for me. One player in our gaming group is playing a blaster, 110% optimized for it. To cut story short, he loves being in spotlight and his burst damage is quite powerful. He literally 1 shoted lv5 NPC boss for 40 fire damage which I had to change because other players were waiting for this battle and having it done before it started wouldn't have been fun for anyone but him. They are still at early levels so damage output is high until later in game, but I have a feeling that his damage won't stop at that. My biggest concern is that he might be stealing spotlight on BBEG encounters. While I will handle this the best possible way, I would still love some advice about this. I searched the boards about it and I know people growl about this similar problems constantly, but it's specific enough that I can't find specific answer for it.
I am a rules lawyer alot myself and I have high ego sometimes, to be honest. I am also a fairly new GM with only 30 sessions behind me done in PFS with different people and in home campaigns. That all on side I know that I am new GM, even after 30 sessions. It just feels like that. I believe in fun at table, but everyone needs to have some portion of it.
Thanks everyone on responses up infront.
In game If your players are fighting minions of a certain badguy it would make sense for that badguy to start outfitting his minions with gear to help counter your blaster. And his men would start using tactics to isolate and target him. How is he set up? Has there just been a string of lucky crit, or is this guy really doing that much damage? If hes using the same spell over and over again a lower level minion designed to do nothing but counterspell would be both a smart tactic from the badguys and help to put the spot light on other players.
How are his social skills and the like? Not every problem can be solved with a fireball! How do the other players feel?
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In game If your players are fighting minions of a certain badguy it would make sense for that badguy to start outfitting his minions with gear to help counter your blaster. And his men would start using tactics to isolate and target him. How is he set up? Has there just been a string of lucky crit, or is this guy really doing that much damage? If hes using the same spell over and over again a lower level minion designed to do nothing but counterspell would be both a smart tactic from the badguys and help to put the spot light on other players.
How are his social skills and the like? Not every problem can be solved with a fireball! How do the other players feel?
There is no string of lucky crits. His DCs are impossible atm for NPCs to go for and he has +3 to caster level with Burning Arc spell. That's 6d6 damage on lv3 and additional 3d6 if he moves flaming sphere.
It should be noted that he blew 3x level2 spells to do this. Invisibility and those 2 blasts so he had a suprise round and he won the Initiative. It seemed fair enough. It's not exactly a problem like I said, I am just concerned it might become problem.
His social skills are low, but only Charismatic person in party is "silent roleplayer", so he doesn't talk much.
Out of game, other players feel fine for now and he is really a funny and nice person, he just optimizes too much a bit.
Sounds like the BBEG is going to be equipping his minions with some anti-fire gear.
I think the trick is here is just make sure not every encounter can be resolved with a big flashy blast of magic fire. Hopefully the guys with more experience can give you some actual tips though! I will be curious to hear them.
agree with TheRonin, minus the anti-fire gear. I don't like to tailor NPCs to deal with particular PCs unless it is an in-game plot device. If there is a BBEG who has been following the player's actions, he will prepare accordingly and the final encounter will be nice & memorable. Otherwise, NPCs have their own goals and agendas, and unless they are really worried about fire on a regular basis, they would have no reason to go out of their way to protect against fire damage.
I've encountered situations like this as a GM, and there's nothing wrong with fudging die rolls to give the other players a chance to shine.
Also, in my gaming group, it's been an understanding amongst the players for years that you should always target enemy Robes first. With AOE spells, the ability to summon monsters, cast Hold Person or Dominate Person on the party tank, etc., the enemy Robes are the biggest potential threat. (In this case "Robes" means any caster class, clerics/oracles/druids are as troublesome as sorcerers and wizards).
There is no reason why NPCs would not have the same mentality, and thus target your arcane blaster with the same determination that a player would target an NPC enemy caster.
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It was kind of first BBEG fight I made. It was CR 3 NPC cleric 3/aristocrat 1. He was generally overconfident of himself and didn't expect PCs to come but had plenty of cannon fodder to get ready somewhat. It was designed that way, I just didn't expect Invisibility from him and didn't want to penalize him for anything.
Well consider he is a blaster, he seems to be focused on it, so let him blast stuff. But there should be plenty of chances for everyone else to shine, Out of curiosity what does the rest of the party look like?
There are no stealth classes in that party. If the Wizard is casting Invisibility right outside the door to the BBEG fight, the BBEG & Minions have a reasonable chance to hear it through the door. Remember you have to clearly & audibly speak the verbal spell component, which gives anyone hearing it (even through a door) a free Spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong. But if he tries this trick again, you have a tool to overcome it. So the scenario might look like:
Wizard casts Invis just outside door to the BBEG lair. The BBEG hears garbly-goo-magic words, identifies the spell and tells his minions "someone just cast Invisibility out there, so they have a caster!". Then PC's kick in the door, and one or two minions already have a readied action to use a range attack against anyone who casts a spell. Since Invisibility ends after a blasty spell is cast, those readied ranged attacks will have a 50% miss chance.... BUT the clear & audible verbal component give them a good idea as to what square the Wizard is in. The readied attacks target the Wizard's square, have a 50% miss chance, and if the Wizard takes damage he has to make a concentration check DC 10+damage dealt + level of spell being cast or the spell does not go off.
The paragraph reads long, but in actual play it's pretty organic. It will also be a wake up call to the party that Invisibility does not trump everything, nor is it designed to =)
Blasting is about the most suboptimal thing a wizard can do with his spells. Fire is also the most common form of energy attack, so creatures with fire resistance are quite common, and it's not metagaming to have anything preparing energy resistance to prep fire resistance.
May I ask how he got +3 to his caster level? That's a lot to gain at such a low level.
In addition, if the Wizard is using move actions to move around his Flaming Sphere and standard actions to cast Scorching Ray, he is stuck in one square and NOT invisible. Put a melee NPC or two next to him and force him to make 5' steps as move actions or get smushed. That will take Flaming Sphere out of the picture, and may give the 2WFighting character a chance or two to actually use a full attack action.
EDIT: and Dabbler is right, +3 to caster level is alot of level 3. the Orange Prism Ioun stone that gives +1 CL is a 30k item. I can understand +1 CL due to the Evocation specialization, but +3 CL is suspiciously high.
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The situation was that main boss was having a ceremony ( much like in church ) and most of minions were infront. Due to ceremony all NPCs were distracted so they had a chance to prepare and launch attack if they wanted and they were looking from a 10 ft. wide passage to the Shrine. There was no way to get near BBEG easily as that, besides using Invisibility (+20 to Stealth). Minions nor BBEG had no chance of hearing him really so he literally casted Flaming Sphere above BBEG in suprise round. He won Initiative and after that it was finished. It was fair and square.
He has +1 on caster lv. from Varisian Tattoo and +2 from Spell Specialization.
I didn't see the Invisibility trick coming because he had to rebuild char due to incorrect build before.
fair enough, just some ideas to use for general NPCs vs. Player Caster scenarios.
He has Spell Focus, Spell Specialization and a Varisian Tattoo? Human and he used all his feats for it? Specialized for sure.
He has +1 on caster lv. from Varisian Tattoo and +2 from Spell Specialization.
I didn't see the Invisibility trick coming because he had to rebuild char due to incorrect build before.
And he will again - just as soon as he levels a few times and wants to specialise in a different spell. Word to the wise: do not let him.
"do not let him" - You mean in game or out of game? He is planing to go for Fireball, but I already see it failing if he can't exclude his allies from AoE.
Atarlost is correct, he can switch his spell specialisation, but he may well want to 're-adjust' his character in other ways. I would not encourage this, if his character class does not have retraining options he should not be able to retrain.
As for fireball, let him take it - as you say, he cannot exclude allies from it, and it's not all that awesome. As fighting classes get second attacks they will start to outstrip him in damage.
When dealing with players who like to specialize to the detriment of other players, I've found the best way to handle the situation is to give the biggest rewards to the most flexible, well-rounded adventurers. Examples:
- fireball/lightning bolt-slinging casters? Encounters in cramped spaces with lots of line-of-sight-obstructing terrain.
- glass cannons like specialized rogues? Prolonged/multiple combats.
- overall extreme damage output? Threats that rely on Skills or non-combat abilities (sandstorms, floods, cold), and/or opponents who offer no reward for their defeat, like enemies who have valuable information that the PC's need.
Before long, any and all super-specialists I've led games for have broadened their horizons; specialization is not inherently better than an all-comer's build. It just results in a more simplified rock-paper-scissors sort of gameplay, where either the player crushes his opponents and doesn't share the fun with his friends, or the opponents ignore his efforts, which removes him from the "Having Fun" list.
It's important to note that I'd never do this sort of thing to force a player to change his style just because I don't like it (I mean, I don't; niche-characters make zero sense to me, but that's beside the point). This is the sort of thing you need to do for the good of everyone at the table.
i completely disagree with Quixote, there's no reason to crush a niche character, especially if the player puts the effort / resources into doing a particular thing. For instance a trip build requires a ton of feats if you aren't a monk: Combat Expertise, Imp Trip, and Gr. Trip just to keep up with CMDs.... CMDs are usually 10-20% higher than ACs, so the bonuses Trip feats give are needed to even come close to success. Same with spell casters: Blasty arcane casters get damage even on successful reflex saves, but SaveorSuck casters usually don't get any bonus if the NPC makes the save.... the SaveorSuck spells thus require Spell Focus and Gr. Spell Focus so the player doesn't feel like casting the spell only grants a 50% chance of success.
Certainly have combats happen in a variety of fashions: not everything should be in an open outdoors area, and not everything should be in a 10' wide corridor that strips the benefit of having debilitating AOE effects.
Furthermore, the point of the game is for the players (and GM) to have fun. The only reason to keep a super successful character/player in check is if the other players aren't getting their share of glory or success and they get noticeably frustrated or bored with it. As the GM, your fun should come in running an enjoyable game and getting to play out the story.... If you need the players to fail or constantly be unable to use their abilities in order to have fun, then its time for you to stop running the game.
I do not think Quixote is encouraging that they be crushed, merely that you do not cater to their speciality but encourage them to hedge their bets about what they can do.
fair, i may have read a bit too much into it. i just meant there's a desirable middle ground between encouraging an attitude of "be ready for anything" and "the optimized player with Ability XYZ should rarely get to shine".
Spell Turning, aka the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense. Give it to the right BBEG (in the form of a magic item since you won't have 15th L casters as BBEGs just yet) and the troublesome character can blast himself out of existence. Then just don't let his replacement go the same route.
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I see some good suggestions so far and I am memorizing them. Just to be again more clear, I don't want to counter him, that's very easy to do, I simply want to strech specific combats long enough for others to shine. Also, it's AP not private campaign, so the best is that I can modify tactics slightly or change positions of NPCs.
Thanks again on all suggestions so far.
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Ring of Fire Resistance, minor. Takes the teeth off his attacks, is a nice item to find for the party, but doesn't just shut him down - it just means somebody else has to step in and do some hitting.
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How many encounters are you doing per day? It sounds a lot like he's using most of his spells in a single combat to really go to town.
The balance for casters vs. martials is built on the idea of roughly four serious fights per day of adventuring, so casters have to pace themselves and not spend everything in the first fight.
For BBEG fights, consider having a perimeter defense with sentries, to
A) make sure you get some warning; give the sentries an alarm bell or something. This makes it much harder to surprise the BBEG, gives the BBEG time to buff his own team.
B) stops PC casters from spending everything on the boss fight.
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Also, and this depends a great deal on the kind of campaign you run, do BBEGs have a chance to learn about the PCs, who they fought before and how they won, and what are the odds that the PCs will be coming after this BBEG?
If the answer to the above questions is mostly Yes, or if the PCs use a pretty standard, straighforward tactic (like blasting anyone who looks like a BBEG), then the BBEG should be appropriately prepared.
* An illusionary decoy of the BBEG, to make the blaster waste his opening shot. Even if it wastes just one Fireball, that's still a top-rank spell spent and a round of casting wasted and the spellcaster clearly identified; well worth one mid-rank illusion spell. (You can also dress up an expendable kobold with a lot of bling-bling weaponry if you don't have illusions yourself.)
* Environment that doesn't work well with the preferred attack method. For example, fireballs can cause forest fires that'll also kill the PCs. Give the players a fair chance to know about this beforehand, or when they enter the scene; "Roll Perception or K(Nature) 10... okays, the woods are pretty dry, you should be wary of starting fires, because they could spread quickly..."
* Don't make it too easy on blasters. Stand close to PCs to discourage AoE spells. Don't all stand together in a clump to be hit by one Fireball; instead come at the PCs from all sides so no one spell can target all enemies.
* Block lines of sight and effect. Fight in cluttered terrain that you know well; have a few traps places on squares that any movement-optimizing player would use to walk through, but you can walk around if you know about them. Use Darkness and Fog spells, particularly if you have Darksight or Blindsense.
* A blaster who uses only one element is asking for it. Resist Elements and RE: Communal are very good spells.
He is planing to go for Fireball, but I already see it failing if he can't exclude his allies from AoE.
If he gets his hands on a Rod of Selective Metamagic that won't be a serious problem. (For 3000gp, you can cast three area effect spells a day that leave up to four people in their radius unharmed.)
I'm not sure this is a problem to be resolved in-game; it'll just get silly.
Take him to one side and ask him to remake his character into something more balanced. Explain that you're a new DM and you're struggling to come up with scenarios to challenge the whole party.
He'll probably grumble but, hopefully, he'll do it. If not, tell him you don't want him in the game.
Theres some nice rules slinging in this thread, but thats not really teaching you how to DM this guy. In this case what you really needed to do is push him before the finale. Get him to blow his resources so that he's a bit more limited by the time everyone reaches the goal line.
If you're running a simple hack and slash it isn't really a big deal. He's a caster so he's already been holding back before the last fight to hoard up his spells, the rest of the party has had their time in the spotlight, now its his. All fair and well.
If you're actually running some kind of storyline with a villain though you have to give the players a 3 dimensional one. Your bad guy has to think ahead, he has to plan. More to the point, he needs to observe the party as they try to find him. Obviously they'll be going through tons of minions before the big show down. How many of those guys escaped? How many got off a message to their secret master about the party before they died? Were there any innocent witnesses to these fights? By the time your group gets to the bad guy he'll have quite a dossier on each of them, and that means he'll have plenty of disposable resources to counter them. Probably not so good of an idea to let the bad guy get surprised either, yes, its his usual ceremony, but he's been watching, he knows the players are on the way, he's no fool after all. Is he?
Firstly, how did he manage to pull 3 lvl 2 spells of at lvl 3? He would need 22 int, which require at least a +2 headband (which is quite a significant portion of his expected wealth at lvl 3).
Even so, while the high damage (considering the level) might be problematic in one encounter, if you avoid the 15 min work day, he is going to have no ressources for the next / previous encounters.
Secondly, in my experience blasting isn't as encounter breaking as other spell types. HP is the easiest variable to adjust on the run, if you like the BBEG to stand for a few more rounds. It is often the best adjustment, as the blaster can appreciate his envolvement and be important in the fight.
As a comparision a hold person or hideous laughter would have ended the encounter. The only way you could have avoided that, was through immunities or significantly higher saves.
Harald: 1 for level, 1 for Int, 1 for school specialty.
Thank you, forgot about the school spells. And I guess arcane bond could grant another one.
Malag, I think you're more experienced than you give yourself credit for. The mere fact that you're not looking to "counter him" speaks to that. It's the classic inexperienced DM mistake. :) Not that you should never do so, but no more than countering any other class/player, to occasionally provide some adversity.
For a long-term solution, should it become necessary, I'd suggest you consider not putting all your eggs in one basket. Rather than one really tough BBEG and lots of weak minions, have them involve one BBEG and a handful of almost-as-tough lieutenants. It doesn't matter as much if your one optimizer is dealing big damage to one bad guy, if there are five other tough bad guys on the field that also need handling.
I played in a 2-year level 1-20 campaign a few years ago, where I was the optimizer. Not that the other players in my group are bad at it, I just tend to enjoy the system mastery aspect of D&D (now Pathfinder) more, so my character came out somewhat more powerful.
Our DM never batted an eye. There just turned out to be additional big nasties in the combat. Rather than my power stealing the spotlight, it became a necessity that we as a group depended on to face greater challenges, and while I might have been lance-charge-smiting the flying ogri magi fifty feet above the battlefield, the orc barbarian and the rest of the party were working on the shadow dragon below...
Long story short, there's no amount of damage a player can do that more bad guys can't solve. :p
If the player had a bad attitude I wouldn't suggest this, but from the sounds of it he's a good player and brings a lot to the game, he just churns out character that are a tad more powerful than the standard.
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@Ascalaphus
Most of everything you said is already covered in AP, but I didn't include any of it almost in this "dungeon". It was first time made by me. Cleric caster NPCs aren't usually that tough, so I maybe made mistake there.
@MacFethus
There is no need for that. I told them all to be ready for anything. It's hard and challenging AP.
@Vexous
I think you hit the spot. Usually all NPC BBEGs were prepared so far. This one wasn't, I believe this was mistake.
@Lord Pendragon
A good advice. Thank you. To note is that player is very nice person, he is just optimizier, he even admits it.
I am a big fan of cheating.
I think that the mechanics and the rules are all well and good and I let the dice fall where they may around 98% of the time.
The other 2% of the time, if I think the party is hammering through the BBEG then he may have an extra few hp, or may have some DR, or whatever.
The point is you can make the fight more memorable. Don't steal the spotlight from the players by any means, but an extra 2 or 3 rounds of combat can change a BBEG they may have rolled over into a fight they will remember.
The challenge in doing that is not making their choices feel pointless or unfair. Ultimately my job as a GM is to make the game fun and to make sure people are enjoying themselves. To acheive that result I will rely on any tool I have available from improv, to on the fly combat/story changes, to cheating for the betterment of the game.
...give him choices - he can blast the BBEG, -or- the bunch of minions charging forward to take out the rest of the party(conveniently out of AoE of the BBEG).
...big rooms with lots of space and cover/blockages.
...use an illusion of a BBEG (so he learns not to instantly blast what appears to be the BBEG)
...flammable terrain (so if the fire blast is used it causes other issues, like burning away the vegetation that separates the minions from the PC's
...if this is his one big spell....Foes will learn to counterspell (or other protections)
I had a very similar issue with a player in my group a few years ago, and it ruined the campaign and cost us that player until just recently. Highly specialized fire based sorcerer, with spells like fly, improved invisibility, and enervation to round out his damage dealing spells. The guy could solo same CR Red Dragons, despite the focus on fire spells.
Just remember that if the players can implement a tactic, the bad guys can as well. Fireballs work great when he goes first and can throw one into a cave or stone room. It sucks, though, when the loot the bad guys were carrying is now all ash or melted, mishapen lumps of metal. Or when friendly fire starts occurring.
Make use of readied actions, too. Have people ready to attack and interrupt the spellcaster. Especially once they realize what he's capable of.
And BBEG's aren't stupid, normally. Once they start hearing that all their minions and subordinates are defeated by the same tactic used repeatedly, they'll start to adjust for it. The AP's are flexible in that regard.
Don't be too hard on the player, though. He did a bunch to optimize this one aspect of his character, and so the tactic should work on a regular basis. And spellcasters have limited resources, so once he's blown his load of spells, don't just allow the party to bed down whenever they feel like it. Resource management is an important aspect of this game, and most dungeons / environments are vibrant, living things who don't take kindly to having four adventurers huddled together in a closet for an extended 8 hour period of time, especially if they've made the surrounding area smell of sulfur, burnt hair, and charred meat.
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@divineshadow
It's Rise of the Runelords.
@martryn