Depends on if the ghost touch was enchanted as a +1 ghost touch (weapon - yes) or +1 ghost touch (armor - no).
Pretty much what Skylancer said.
A Ghost Touch property can only be applied to a Weapon. While a Shield is interchangable in both a weapon and a shield/armor/protective item, the enhancement modifier it grants must be applied to the Attack Roll (unless it has the Bashing quality attached to it); in which case, yes, it would deal standard damage to incorporeal creatures.
If the +1 was to a Shield Bonus to AC, then no, as the property would not only not be able to be applied to the shield, but also that the shield is enchanted as a defensive item, not an offensive weapon (for which the Ghost Touch can only apply to).
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A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.
Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, plane shift; Price +1 bonus.
Ghost Touch: This armor or shield seems almost translucent. Both its enhancement bonus and its armor bonus count against the attacks of corporeal and incorporeal creatures. It can be picked up, moved, and worn by corporeal and incorporeal creatures alike. Incorporeal creatures gain the armor's or shield's enhancement bonus against both corporeal and incorporeal attacks, and they can still pass freely through solid objects.
Strong transmutation; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, etherealness; Price +3 bonus.
So, technically, by RAW, if you wanted the ghost touch armor bonus for your shield, it would be added onto the cost of gaining the ghost touch weapon bonus for your shield. Not sure if that makes sense, though.
Nice find. I didn't notice that.
While the OP only asked for a means to bypass DR from incorporeal creatures with a shield, I wouldn't have known that a Ghost Touch property was implemented with magic armor/shields (and could further help his plight).
+1, my friend. +1...
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Okay, so the complete issue is a little less black and white I guess. I have a +2 bashing shield, and I was thinking if I was to add the ghost touch shield enhancement it protect and deal damage normally, since it already counts as a +1 weapon. But what your saying is I would have to add the ghost touch shield bonus and also add +1 and ghost touch weapon bonuses anyway?
RAW the armor property doesn't do anything at all for attacking. They can move it/use it, and it provides its bonus from enhance/armor. The weapon property is what deals with the offensive properties and what the OP would need to deal with the damage reduction.
Okay, so the complete issue is a little less black and white I guess. I have a +2 bashing shield, and I was thinking if I was to add the ghost touch shield enhancement it protect and deal damage normally, since it already counts as a +1 weapon. But what your saying is I would have to add the ghost touch shield bonus and also add +1 and ghost touch weapon bonuses anyway?
Correct, RAW the abilities state what they do and while similar (incorporeal can use/move with them), the armor property and weapon property do two completely different things.
Again, Skylancer is correct.
By RAW, a shield can count as both a Weapon and an Armor in terms of enchanting. I can have a +1/+1 Ghost Touch (weapon) shield, and bypass the DR of an incorporeal creature; however, I cannot use the shield as a bonus to AC because the Ghost Touch enchantment that I used only affects the DR upon a successful hit against an incorporeal creature.
The inverse is also true. By RAW, if I have a +1/+1 Ghost Touch (armor) Shield, and gain my total Shield Bonus to AC against incorporeal attacks, I cannot use my shield to bypass the DR of an incorporeal creature, as the property I placed upon my shield only affects how an incorporeal affects me, not how I affect an incorporeal creature.
Hope this helps!
I understand the RAW, but in this case, it doesn't make logical sense. Obviously, a shield offers protection by making physical contact with an object (you know, so you don't have to). A ghost touch shield offers protection against incorporeal entities by making physical contact with their attacks (again, so you won't have to)...in what universe does it make any logical sense to state that a shield that can make contact with a ghost can't make contact with a ghost?
This is one of those few design flaws in the rules that I correct with a house rule...if the ghost can touch the shield, the shield can touch the ghost. Simple, and best of all, it makes sense.
Again, with my examples, a shield is only enhanced to either do one or the other, as the magic applied to them only affects those factors.
If I had a +5 Full Plate, and the Full Plate gives me a +5 to my AC, why doesn't it also affect my Armor Check Penalty and Max Dex Bonus? Because the Magic doesn't encompass those areas.
The same concept with my example above applies to the shield I explained in my previous post.
A suit of armor with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
Since the Ghost Touch weapon property is a +1, that's at least a +2 shield for cost right there. And the Ghost Touch armor property is a +3, so add on +4 to the cost.
You have, cost-wise, a +6 shield that grants +1 AC magic bonus, a +1 attack and damage magic bonus, can be used by ghosts as armor and can hit ghosts as a weapon.
Darksol - thanks. :)
Try not to bring logic to a game based on magic. Things fall apart horribly.
Think of it this way, when enchanting the armor aspect the property is reactive, when attacked the property protects you from incoming attacks. If you shove it against the ghost (or what have you) there is nothing to react to, so nothing happens.
When enchanting the weapon aspect it becomes active, when you shove it against the ghost it stays solid and allows you to take the offensive.
So that's my interpretation of RAW; however, I agree that it doesn't make sense. I'd houserule that if a player got the ghost touch armor enhancement, I'll allow it to contact ghosts for shield bash, it just wouldn't gain any magic enhancements to attack unless more money/magic was invested into the shield as a weapon.
I'm not sure how I'd rule it if the converse was true (the shield has the +2 bonus for ghost touch weapon, and not the +4 bonus for ghost touch armor).
A suit of armor with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.Since the Ghost Touch weapon property is a +1, that's at least a +2 shield for cost right there. And the Ghost Touch armor property is a +3, so add on +4 to the cost.
You have, cost-wise, a +6 shield that grants +1 AC magic bonus, a +1 attack and damage magic bonus, can be used by ghosts as armor and can hit ghosts as a weapon.
Darksol - thanks. :)
Incorrect, you have to enhance the weapon aspect and armor aspect seperately.
Masterwork shield
+1 ghost touch (weapon aspect, +2 weapon)
Then add
+2 bashing ghost touch (armor aspect +6 shield/armor)
Total.
EDIT: total enhancement for armor!
Skylancer - you're right. Thanks for catching that.
EDIT: But remember, ghost touch armor is a +3 enhancement by itself. Not a +1.
EDIT 2: So it would be 16,000 gp (plus MW and shield cost) to get the ghost touch armor quality, and an additional 8,000 gp for the weapon aspect. Total: 24,000 gp plus MW and shield cost.
Oh, and skylancer, you don't have to have the bashing property; that just makes the shield hit as if it were two sizes larger.
Skylancer - you're right. Thanks for catching that.
EDIT: But remember, ghost touch armor is a +3 enhancement by itself. Not a +1.
EDIT 2: So it would be 16,000 gp (plus MW and shield cost) to get the ghost touch armor quality, and an additional 8,000 gp for the weapon aspect. Total: 24,000 gp plus MW and shield cost.
Well, even with that considered, all he has to do is add the bonuses together.
It essentially comes to a +6 enhancement shield; but its cost is derived from a +2 weapon enhancement total, and a +4 enhancement total, combined (including material/masterwork and base shield costs).
So with an 8,000 plus a 16,000, plus whatever materials and shield type costs included, would result in (more-or-less) 24,000 gold. So he is still correct.
Yeah, I think we're in agreement here.
Compare that to a regular +6 shield, which is 36,000gp, so at least it's cheaper in cost to get both attributes to the shield.
I think Skylancer was saying that don't expect for what makes sense to cooperate with game balance.
Oh, and skylancer, you don't have to have the bashing property; that just makes the shield hit as if it were two sizes larger.
The OP stated he had a +2 Bashing shield so I was working with that in mind.
Skylancer - you're right. Thanks for catching that.
EDIT: But remember, ghost touch armor is a +3 enhancement by itself. Not a +1.
EDIT 2: So it would be 16,000 gp (plus MW and shield cost) to get the ghost touch armor quality, and an additional 8,000 gp for the weapon aspect. Total: 24,000 gp plus MW and shield cost.
Well, even with that considered, all he has to do is add the bonuses together.
It essentially comes to a +6 enhancement shield; but its cost is derived from a +2 weapon enhancement total, and a +4 enhancement total, combined (including material/masterwork and base shield costs).
So with an 8,000 plus a 16,000, plus whatever materials and shield type costs included, would result in (more-or-less) 24,000 gold. So he is still correct.
You have to keep them seperate, each aspect is capped at +10 worth of enhancements so you need to keep accurate track of them.
You have to keep them seperate, each aspect is capped at +10 worth of enhancements so you need to keep accurate track of them.Skylancer - you're right. Thanks for catching that.
EDIT: But remember, ghost touch armor is a +3 enhancement by itself. Not a +1.
EDIT 2: So it would be 16,000 gp (plus MW and shield cost) to get the ghost touch armor quality, and an additional 8,000 gp for the weapon aspect. Total: 24,000 gp plus MW and shield cost.
Well, even with that considered, all he has to do is add the bonuses together.
It essentially comes to a +6 enhancement shield; but its cost is derived from a +2 weapon enhancement total, and a +4 enhancement total, combined (including material/masterwork and base shield costs).
So with an 8,000 plus a 16,000, plus whatever materials and shield type costs included, would result in (more-or-less) 24,000 gold. So he is still correct.
Alright, let's take your rule into context, since it is truly an interesting concept...
A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10.
A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10.
Since a shield is one, and not the other, it can only have a +10 Weapon property total.
Ironically, this means that a Shield, according to strict RAW, can have an unlimited amount of "Shield benefits", which is beyond crazy (but is also scaled with gold costs, so it isn't game-breaking, until you reach end-game where the coin and such doesn't matter).
Obviously, RAI says "A suit of Armor or a Shield," since there is no pricing listed for items beyond +10 bonuses, but at the same time, the rules also demonstrate there is no cap for defensive stats of a shield (since by RAW, it says the rules only apply to armor, and not Shields for defensive properties). (In other words, FAQ this post, please.)
The rules say a shield can be enhanced as a weapon as well as shield and that the costs must be added. Furthermore shields are a subset of armor (and specifically called out to stack with armor). Feel free to read up on the shield enhancements on page 462 of the core rule book (where it covers enhancement bonus cap).
The rules say a shield can be enhanced as a weapon as well as shield and that the costs must be added. Furthermore shields are a subset of armor (and specifically called out to stack with armor). Feel free to read up on the shield enhancements on page 462 of the core rule book (where it covers enhancement bonus cap).
I figured such a thing was covered (obvious RAI), so I'm glad I'm not some clown who found something that was severely overlooked.
And yes that the enhancement bonuses are separate and must be added.
A +1 Ghost Touch weapon counts as 8,000 GP, a +1 Ghost Touch shield counts as 16,000 GP, equating to 24,000 GP in enhancements total (+4 from Armor, +2 from Weapons).
Just another of the rules mentioned once in a place which is kinda 'out of the way' (though not as bad as some).
Oops, I've been shield bashing with just the 'armor' not the 'weapon'! Guess I need to fix this BEFORE the GM reads this....