I've recently built a witch, and I've noticed that there are a LOT of hexes I want. Right off the bat I like Evil Eye, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune, Flight, Cauldron, and a few others. At level one I'm taking Evil Eye and cackle, with Cauldron at level 2.
My question is, how bad of an idea is it to keep taking Extra Hex as a feat? I know hexes are about as good as a feat in some cases, but I know I should probably take other feats as well. Any thoughts?
Slumber is another one I really like, but I did take Sleep as a spell, so that's covered for a bit.
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Sleep is good at 1st level, but garbage after.
The important part of slumber is that it has NO HD LIMIT
If the creature is not immune to magic sleep, slumber will work. It's an insanely powerful single-target debuff
When you considered that a witch can use slumber on a creature, it has to make 2 will saves at a -2 and take the lower roll as a result of Cackle and Evil Eye/Misfortune, it becomes a really powerful character.
Get a headband of int +6 asap and steamroll anything not immune to sleep.
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This is not making m decision making process any easier. Cauldron is kinda key, flavorwise. I suppose I could put it off, and just run off my Craft (Alchemy) for a while...
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Well, you don't have to take it immediately! I'm just saying, it's one of your best hexes, so you should think about making room for it in your build.
It becomes significantly better the higher you can buff your INT too. Since the DC is based on your level and INT, the DC will always scale.
If you have a level 10 witch with a starting INT of 20 and a +2 Bonus from leveling and +6 Bonus from a Headband, your Slumber DC will be 10 + 5 + 9 = 24
Now the monster has to make 2 saves at a -2 and take the worst one. Good luck with that.
a lot of monsters tend to have either good fortitude or will saves. often both.
I've just started running a Witch as well (in the Serpent's Skull AP), and this same question has been much on my mind. As always, way more desirable feats than slots. I'm not playing a Human, so that's already cost me one (but IMHO more than compensated for by playing a Changeling with Mother's Gift(uncanny resistance): I get SR equal to 6 plus my level.)
I'm probably looking at fewer than 10 total feats, since the AP isn't likely to run to 19th L. Feats I've been seriously considering include:
(Metamagic) Reach, Extend
(Craft) Craft Wand, Scribe Scroll
(Combat) Improved Initiative, Hex Strike*, Weapon Finesse*
(Other) Accursed Hex, Magical Aptitude, Master Alchemist, Split Hex
That's already two or three more feats than I'm likely to get over my whole career, so unless I can cut three or more from that list, Extra Hex isn't a real option for me. My best guess for hexes at this point would be, in no particular order: Slumber, Cackle, Cauldron, Evil Eye, Flight, Misfortune; (Major) Major Healing, Retribution, Witch's Brew; (Grand) Life Giver, Summon Spirit
This is not making m decision making process any easier. Cauldron is kinda key, flavorwise. I suppose I could put it off, and just run off my Craft (Alchemy) for a while...
If you are taking Craft(alchemy) and Cauldron, seriously consider the Master Alchemist feat:
Prerequisite: Craft (alchemy) 5 ranks.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks, and you may create mundane alchemical items much more quickly than normal. When making poisons, you can create a number of doses equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) at one time. These additional doses do not increase the time required, but they do increase the raw material cost.
In addition, whenever you make alchemical items or poisons using Craft (alchemy), use the item’s gp value as its sp value when determining your progress (do not multiply the item’s gp cost by 10 to determine its sp cost).
Slumber will definitely be taken, it's just a matter of WHEN.
And that Master Alchemist feat sounds like a good choice for 5th level...
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I've just started running a Witch as well (in the Serpent's Skull AP), and this same question has been much on my mind. As always, way more desirable feats than slots. I'm not playing a Human, so that's already cost me one (but IMHO more than compensated for by playing a Changeling with Mother's Gift(uncanny resistance): I get SR equal to 6 plus my level.)
I'm probably looking at fewer than 10 total feats, since the AP isn't likely to run to 19th L. Feats I've been seriously considering include:
(Metamagic) Reach, Extend
(Craft) Craft Wand, Scribe Scroll
(Combat) Improved Initiative, Hex Strike*, Weapon Finesse*
(Other) Accursed Hex, Magical Aptitude, Master Alchemist, Split Hex** spoiler omitted **
That's already two or three more feats than I'm likely to get over my whole career, so unless I can cut three or more from that list, Extra Hex isn't a real option for me. My best guess for hexes at this point would be, in no particular order: Slumber, Cackle, Cauldron, Evil Eye, Flight, Misfortune; (Major) Major Healing, Retribution, Witch's Brew; (Grand) Life Giver, Summon Spirit
Well before you get to enamored with these choices lets clarify a few things for you.
Don't bother taking Metamagic Reach, you have spectral hand on your spell list and a rod of Reach, Lesser (or three) is far more efficient.Hex Strike doesn't work with claws, it's specifically spelled out that way. Now if you wanted to invest in Feral Combat training AND Improved unarmed strike then you can do that. It's really not worth it unless you plan to melee A LOT.
Craft wand, I guess you're taking it for flavor since it's really only good for turning out 1st level buff spell wands. The DC's don't scale well for offense and the cost is prohibitive for 2nd and 3rd level spells.
I don't see the point of taking Master Alchemist or or Magical aptitude. Your a Int based class and should have massive bonus to your spellcraft score already and UMD is nice but as a full caster most of the spells/items you'll be interested in you wont need to UMD for it (or you'll just have your familiar do it for you). Alchemy doesn't scale at all well past 5th level and you'll find your self regretting it.
Cauldron, the red headed step child of all the crafting related abilities. I can't recommend more highly to avoid this hex. It's just universally a bad choice for the practical Witch. Please read the errata hereon this ability before building a character around it and you'll see it's been nerfed to oblivion.
You can only brew potions of spells on your spell list that you currently know AND have memorized. No other crafting feat has this restriction making this the worst of them.
Take Craft Wondrous item instead and you actually get a better Brew Potion ability then this hex will ever give you.
Don't bother taking Metamagic Reach, you have spectral hand on your spell list and a rod of Reach, Lesser (or three) is far more efficient.
Well, sure, once you can get metamagic rods. I suppose spectral hand would do until then.
Hex Strike doesn't work with claws, it's specifically spelled out that way. Now if you wanted to invest in Feral Combat training AND Improved unarmed strike then you can do that.
And FCT carries Weapon Focus (natural weapon) as a prereq, so, no way. I'd actually only have considered Hex Strike if the Improved Unarmed Strike requirement were considered already met. If I wasn't considering a tax of a single feat, I certainly won't consider three.
In any case, temporary brain spasm on my part, equating "not weilding a conventional weapon" with "unarmed."
Craft wand, I guess you're taking it for flavor since it's really only good for turning out 1st level buff spell wands. The DC's don't scale well for offense and the cost is prohibitive for 2nd and 3rd level spells.
No, not taking it for flavor, but precisely in order to turn out the 1st level wands you mentioned: CLW, mage armor, just the stuff you'd expect.
I don't see the point of taking Master Alchemist or or Magical aptitude.
I'll take a closer look at Craft(alchemy) and the Master alchemy feat on your advice, but as far as Spellcraft and UMD go, there is no such thing as too large a bonus, especially if I want to use scrolls and operate wands outside of the witch's limited spell list.
You can only brew potions of spells on your spell list that you currently know AND have memorized.
That's a limitation of Brew Potion, not just Cauldron. If I want to brew potions, Cauldron gets me that feat plus the Alchemy bonus (but I did say I'd revisit Alchemy, so that may not matter.) How does Craft Wondrous Item get me a better potion?
Don't bother taking Metamagic Reach, you have spectral hand on your spell list and a rod of Reach, Lesser (or three) is far more efficient.
Spectral hand costs an action to cast (and you can't always pre-buff before every combat). And it's a melee touch attack. Most casters won't have weapon finesse despite having low strength and high dex. So hitting an enemy with a reach touch should be easier for them. Also, Spectral Hand only works for spell level 4 and lower. Admittedly, that covers most good touch spells but not all of them.
Yes, getting a Rod and Spectral Hand are a good idea, but if I would plan to use melee touch spells at all, I'd totally get the feat.
Craft wand, I guess you're taking it for flavor since it's really only good for turning out 1st level buff spell wands.
Improved Familiar + UMD + Craft Wand + Ill Omen...
You can only brew potions of spells on your spell list that you currently know AND have memorized. No other crafting feat has this restriction making this the worst of them.
Actually, Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand and Craft Staff have the same restrictions, as the rule applies to all spell trigger or spell completion items.
I took the cauldron hex with my alchemy crafting hexcrafter magus, found it to be totally useless and got the ok from my GM to change it.
Sure it is better than just taking brew potion but being better than useless doesn't mean it's good.
Just take something useful instead. Like flight.
Even smell children may come up more useful.
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Child scent is too funny to not take. Something the character isn't proud that he can do.
"It's a witch thing. Drop it."
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Don't bother taking Metamagic Reach, you have spectral hand on your spell list and a rod of Reach, Lesser (or three) is far more efficient.Spectral hand costs an action to cast (and you can't always pre-buff before every combat). And it's a melee touch attack. Most casters won't have weapon finesse despite having low strength and high dex. So hitting an enemy with a reach touch should be easier for them. Also, Spectral Hand only works for spell level 4 and lower. Admittedly, that covers most good touch spells but not all of them.
Yes, getting a Rod and Spectral Hand are a good idea, but if I would plan to use melee touch spells at all, I'd totally get the feat.
Craft wand, I guess you're taking it for flavor since it's really only good for turning out 1st level buff spell wands.Improved Familiar + UMD + Craft Wand + Ill Omen...
You can only brew potions of spells on your spell list that you currently know AND have memorized. No other crafting feat has this restriction making this the worst of them.Actually, Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand and Craft Staff have the same restrictions, as the rule applies to all spell trigger or spell completion items.
No, the average Witch doesn't have Weapon finesse BUT most of their Familiars do, and since you can designate your familiar as the "toucher" AND share the Spectral hand with them they can deliver your multi-charge touch spells for you while you continue to hex your target into oblivion.
As for the spell trigger/spell completion items you are incorrect. The errata is only applied to the craft potion feat, all other creation feats can simply increase the DC by 5 to bypass that restriction. This was a nerf exclusive to Brew potion.
@Damon Griffin, the advantage of craft wondrous item is in the one use items you can craft with CWI. It specifically allows you to create a single use item that duplicates ANY spell in the game. If you want to make a cure light item you could make a Gingersnap cookie of Cure Light or a gem of restored health or whatever fluff you wanted to put it as. The mechanics are the same (Single use, use-activated item) and the cost is the same as a potion (Spell level x caster level x 50 gp) and it even uses a potion as the example of how this crafting works (Potion of cure light wounds).
Remember this is ANY spell in the game, doesn't matter if it's on your class spell list or not, doesn't matter if it's a buff, debuff or area control spell. when crafting is allowed this is the first (and usually only) item creation feat I take then fill my bandoleer with toys and knick-knacks filled with mage armor, Create Pit spells and Fireballs. Every spell in the game is at my fingertips and all it takes is keeping my spellcraft score up (+15 or so will do it).
Finally UMD is not a skill you need to worry about as a witch, that's what your Familiar is for. As soon as you get a familiar with thumbs (ie the monkey or any of the improved familiars) you take the feat Evolved Familiar and take the Skilled evolution for a +8 Racial bonus to UMD. That gives it an 8 + your ranks (we'll say 7 since that's when the good improved familiars pop up) + charisma bonus (lets use an imp for this for +2) +3 (from the circlet of Persuasion you made for it) = +20 to UMD letting him take 10 and do everything. (at 5th level use a monkey for a +13 so as soon as he uses an item successfully once he can activate blindly from that point on automatically)
Don't make the mistake of putting your familiar in your pocket and forgetting about it, this is a POWERFUL and flexible class feature. It's a full second set of actions every round (or at least free +2 on every skill check you make) and between it and CWI you can be the most powerful, dangerous and flexible character in the game.
I played a Witch from levels 5-12 who abused Slumber and my recommendation is, don't take it. It is really that good. Maybe my GM just gave me too many monsters that were weak to it** (there's always a style thing at play), but the evil eye, misfortune, slumber combo trivializes the game. We had a purple worm attack us, I put it to sleep in round one.
After I committed to not use slumber anymore (actually turned from Witch to Wizard with GM approval), everyone at the table had more fun.
** He loved throwing single, big dumb powerful magical beasts at us. This allows slumber's no HD limit to shine and they tend to be weak on will saves. And even if they weren't weak, the evil eye/misfortune combo softened them up.
Here's how op slumber is. My gm and I played a one on one to get back into pathfinder after having not played since beta. The scene was an ambush where I was going to keep getting confronted until my character would be knocked unconscious. At level 1 I single handedly felled half dozen Cr 1/2 via coup de graces before getting overwhelmed by enemy action economy. There was a caravan with some one shot guards that were getting slaughtered so it's not like they were coming after just me. But in any party you'll have much meatier companions that can keep enemies off you much more efficiently.
For saves at 10+dmg is nasty especially at levels where you do 40-60 damage per round so level 8-10. I don't care how good fort saves are. Most things below Cr 20 will require a natural 20 or die before Cr 20s are even a remote worry.
If you want to make a cure light item you could make a Gingersnap cookie of Cure Light or a gem of restored health or whatever fluff you wanted to put it as. The mechanics are the same (Single use, use-activated item) and the cost is the same as a potion (Spell level x caster level x 50 gp) and it even uses a potion as the example of how this crafting works (Potion of cure light wounds).
Okay, excellent point there.
Finally UMD is not a skill you need to worry about as a witch, that's what your Familiar is for. As soon as you get a familiar with thumbs (ie the monkey or any of the improved familiars) you take the feat Evolved Familiar and take the Skilled evolution for a +8 Racial bonus to UMD.
At present, my familiar is a rat. Changing familiars is not only expensive, but I'll also lose some spells in the process, since the new familiar doesn't know every spell I know (or that the old familiar stored), just all the cantrips plus 2 spells per level the witch can cast. If I understand the rules, in order to recover those spells I'd likely need to purchase scrolls of them, burn the scroll to have my familiar store them, and only then be able to prepare them myself.
EDIT: Or I could scribe the scrolls myself in advance, so it would cost less.
It would also burn two feats I hadn't been considering -- Improved Familiar (unless I get a monkey) and Evolved Familiar, so that may be a tough call for me. I don't think I agree that UMD is only for the familiar in any case. But let's go with that for now. Improved familiars available to a CG witch and who have opposable thumbs include: brownie, entropic monkey, homunculus, lyrakie, mephit, sprite. Do you have a strong recommendation for one over another?
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I always laugh when people talk about how OP slumber is... Guess they don't read the description very closely. 1 round per level. Better slumber enemies standing next to you at first level if you want to coup de grace them since that's a full round action.
Spending 3 rounds to use that slumber hex is not OP, even against a solo. How many combats against solos actually last more than 3 rounds? I know with any reasonably competent group the answer should be "not many".
If its not a solo encounter, such as a BBEG with minions, then having a minion spend a standard action (or any damage source, including 1 damage splash effects) to negate your save or die effect is fine use of actions. Congrats, your multi round built up finisher is negated by a minion/familiar. Depending on initiative order, its possible the only effect slumber has is using up a irrelevant minions actions, and having the BBEG use an action to stand up.
DMs who complain about it don't really have a good grasp of the game system. Sure, the witch can spam it all day long, but only once per target (or twice with a feat). Compare it to spells such as hold person, sleep, or whatever level appropriate spell could be cast, its not a big deal. Sure it doesn't use up a daily resource, but it uses the much more important resource of time (action economy, spending your rounds building up to a finisher, which is still ultimately a save or die is not a great use of time).
It also is completely ineffective against enemies that are immune to sleep effects. So constructs, undead, mindless vermin ect are impossible to stop with this gimmick. Considering how popular these types of enemies are in most campaigns it negates even more the "OP" nature of this hex.
That being said, I still like the effect as a player, because it gives a caster character something relevant to do at all times. Certainly more relevant than the idiot wizards using crossbows to conserve spells, or plinking away with their 1st level wand of magic missile.
As for the OPs question, taking extra hex is a good idea, because most hexes are better than feats. Just don't take it more than a few times, due to not being many hexes that you need to take. In fact, taking it just once is fine if you expect to play through to higher levels (9+ is high level for most groups). Hexes worth taking for a debuff witch: evil eye (bread and butter) misfortune, cackle, and slumber are all you need. So thats only 4 hexes used up, and even non human witches without extra hex can get them all before they start getting the major hexes. Since you are starting out at lvl 1 and need to front load hexes, taking extra hex is a no brainer. At lvl 3 extra hex is still a good choice, but there is a feat you should probably take instead. That feat is accursed hex (lets you hex twice if the save is successful). At lvl 5 extra hex is good again, as flight hex gives you actual flight at that level. Before that the hex is underwhelming, so lvl 5 is the optimal time to take it.
An example of a human witch through lvl 5:
Lvl 1: Feats: extra hex, extra hex
Hexes: evil eye, cackle, slumber
Lvl 2: hexes: Misfortune
Lvl 3: feats: Accursed hex
Lvl 4: hexes: Whatever buff or flavor hex you want, or take flight early
Lvl 5: Feat: extra hex, or if flight already taken, whatever caster feat you want
Hex: flight
Obv this is front heavy on offensive hexes, leaving your 6th and 8th level hexes for flavor or buffing hexes. A decent one to look at is scar for later on split hex use (lets you use hexes on enemies past normal range if you know how to abuse the errata on scar). Scar a minion, let him go, scry on him, when the BBEG comes into view, split hex a slumber, if it works teleport and coup de grace. (yeah, sounds op, but at the level this works at, 10, it really isn't).
Don't bother taking Metamagic Reach, you have spectral hand on your spell list and a rod of Reach, Lesser (or three) is far more efficient.Spectral hand costs an action to cast (and you can't always pre-buff before every combat). And it's a melee touch attack. Most casters won't have weapon finesse despite having low strength and high dex. So hitting an enemy with a reach touch should be easier for them. Also, Spectral Hand only works for spell level 4 and lower. Admittedly, that covers most good touch spells but not all of them.
Yes, getting a Rod and Spectral Hand are a good idea, but if I would plan to use melee touch spells at all, I'd totally get the feat.
Prehensile hair also does touch spells. Really Prehensile Hair is only limited by your creativity. In the 2 levels I've had it on my level 5 PFS witch with 7 str and 22 int, I've used it in game to deliver touch spells, pull myself up to ledges, coup de grace enemies (many many times with a minimum damage of 14), pole vault across obstacles, use OAs to trip approaching enemies and grab escaping ones, and intimidate enemies by whirling around the severed heads of my foes with my hair.
It's a seriously spooky and fun hex. GMs have commented that they both love it (because it's awesome) and hate it (because it's awesome) at the same time.
It's one of the most under-rated hexes to be real honest.
Notabot, where are you getting 1 round per level? Sleep lasts 1 minute per level.
Prehensile hair is another great hex, yes. You can rip doors off hinges, break them down, etc. It makes everything cmb related viable at range and it can't be attacked so aoos are moot unless the creature also has reach.
I always laugh when people talk about how OP slumber is... Guess they don't read the description very closely. 1 round per level. Better slumber enemies standing next to you at first level if you want to coup de grace them since that's a full round action.
Spending 3 rounds to use that slumber hex is not OP, even against a solo. How many combats against solos actually last more than 3 rounds? I know with any reasonably competent group the answer should be "not many".
If its not a solo encounter, such as a BBEG with minions, then having a minion spend a standard action (or any damage source, including 1 damage splash effects) to negate your save or die effect is fine use of actions. Congrats, your multi round built up finisher is negated by a minion/familiar. Depending on initiative order, its possible the only effect slumber has is using up a irrelevant minions actions, and having the BBEG use an action to stand up.
DMs who complain about it don't really have a good grasp of the game system. Sure, the witch can spam it all day long, but only once per target (or twice with a feat). Compare it to spells such as hold person, sleep, or whatever level appropriate spell could be cast, its not a big deal. Sure it doesn't use up a daily resource, but it uses the much more important resource of time (action economy, spending your rounds building up to a finisher, which is still ultimately a save or die is not a great use of time).
It also is completely ineffective against enemies that are immune to sleep effects. So constructs, undead, mindless vermin ect are impossible to stop with this gimmick. Considering how popular these types of enemies are in most campaigns it negates even more the "OP" nature of this hex.
That being said, I still like the effect as a player, because it gives a caster character something relevant to do at all times. Certainly more relevant than the idiot wizards using crossbows to conserve spells, or plinking away with their 1st level wand of magic missile.
As for...
Slumber is extremely powerful fight ender. I tend to slumber first, and debuff later, unless it's some sort of final battle in which I debuff first so that party can participate some and to make sure it's over in round 2-3 in any case. I've ended BBEG many fights before they even began with it.
Last game session:
Fight 1
Surprise round: The witch, demon and party cleric eye each other
Witch wins initiative. Demon sleeps.
Fight 2
You see a group of 4 bandits
Round 1- 1 bandit double moves up and falls asleep, rest of bandits run by them
Round 2- 2nd bandit asleep, party fighting other 2.
Round 3- Activate prehensile hair to coup de grace, because the fight is pretty well over
Round 4- bandit 1 wakes up gets OAed by the witch and rest of party and drops. Bandit 2 is coup de graced by witch. Then bandit 3 tries to run, but is grappled by witch via hair. He surrenders
Fight 3
Big montrous humonoid with mungo sr.
Round 1- misfortune- saves
Round 2- Slumber- fight over.
I never cast a spell. I tend to just use the spells as utility stuff, like charm, burning hands (for swarms), chill touch (for undead) or to deal with groups of enemies (like web and glitterdust).
Notabot, where are you getting 1 round per level? Sleep lasts 1 minute per level.
Prehensile hair is another great hex, yes. You can rip doors off hinges, break them down, etc. It makes everything cmb related viable at range and it can't be attacked so aoos are moot unless the creature also has reach.
Slumber, the hex, is 1 round a level. Sleep, the spell, is 1 minute a level
But, it's not. Where are you getting that?
Nevermind. I'm curious if that's been errata'd. My gm had me read the description to him because thought it was broken but it's never been an issue.
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If you want to make a cure light item you could make a Gingersnap cookie of Cure Light or a gem of restored health or whatever fluff you wanted to put it as. The mechanics are the same (Single use, use-activated item) and the cost is the same as a potion (Spell level x caster level x 50 gp) and it even uses a potion as the example of how this crafting works (Potion of cure light wounds).Okay, excellent point there.
Finally UMD is not a skill you need to worry about as a witch, that's what your Familiar is for. As soon as you get a familiar with thumbs (ie the monkey or any of the improved familiars) you take the feat Evolved Familiar and take the Skilled evolution for a +8 Racial bonus to UMD.
At present, my familiar is a rat. Changing familiars is not only expensive, but I'll also lose some spells in the process, since the new familiar doesn't know every spell I know (or that the old familiar stored), just all the cantrips plus 2 spells per level the witch can cast. If I understand the rules, in order to recover those spells I'd likely need to purchase scrolls of them, burn the scroll to have my familiar store them, and only then be able to prepare them myself.
EDIT: Or I could scribe the scrolls myself in advance, so it would cost less.
It would also burn two feats I hadn't been considering -- Improved Familiar (unless I get a monkey) and Evolved Familiar, so that may be a tough call for me. I don't think I agree that UMD is only for the familiar in any case. But let's go with that for now. Improved familiars available to a CG witch and who have opposable thumbs include: brownie, entropic monkey, homunculus, lyrakie, mephit, sprite. Do you have a strong recommendation for one over another?
First things first, you only lose those spells if your familiar is lost or killed, if you upgrade to an improved familiar those spells transfer over (fiendish/entropic monkey is an improved familiar available at 3rd level) but the Homonculus and mephit are great. the Lyrakien is probably the most powerful with it's spell like abilities and extremely high charisma.
Or you could spend 3000GP ad make yourself (with CWI) a stone familiar (ultimate equipment pg. 320) and back up all your spells into it then get rid of your familiar and call a new one who comes with all new spells and use the stone familiar to teach him all the old spells for free.
@Furious Kender, Prehensile hex is one of the most awesome hexes in the game. I take it on every Witch & Magus I play. Heck I even designed an (OP) magus build focused entirely around this hex.
@Buri, No he's right. Slumber is a 1 round per level hex.
Yeah I reread it and updated my post.
First things first, you only lose those spells if your familiar is lost or killed, if you upgrade to an improved familiar those spells transfer over (fiendish/entropic monkey is an improved...
So, acquire an improved familiar while I still have the rat, have the rat teach the -- let's say monkey -- any extra spells needed and then dismiss the rat? Sounds painless, I just didn't see any provision for dismissing a familiar or for gaining a second one while the first is still around.
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First things first, you only lose those spells if your familiar is lost or killed, if you upgrade to an improved familiar those spells transfer over (fiendish/entropic monkey is an improved...So, acquire an improved familiar while I still have the rat, have the rat teach the -- let's say monkey -- any extra spells needed and then dismiss the rat? Sounds painless, I just didn't see any provision for dismissing a familiar or for gaining a second one while the first is still around.
Yeah, there aren't any listed but there is a dev post stating that spending a feat to get a new familiar doesn't cost you anything and losing all your spells is definitely a cost.
I played a Witch from levels 5-12 who abused Slumber and my recommendation is, don't take it. ...snip...
** He loved throwing single, big dumb powerful magical beasts at us. This allows slumber's no HD limit to shine and they tend to be weak on will saves. And even if they weren't weak, the evil eye/misfortune combo softened them up.
After our Witch Slumbered a big bad nasty beast (purple worm? that giant hot millipede thing that lives in cold places and I can never remember what they're called?) and the barbarian coup de graced it to death, one of my groups came up with this house rule:
a coup de grace is an auto-crit (with a crit card). no fort save.
It makes Slumber still a great hex, but /usually/ encounters are such that either the target has a chance of being woken up by a minion, OR if he's a single enemy, he's badass enough to at least survive a single crit, even from the halforc with a greataxe. It keeps things fun.
Conversely, it really helps out the party when the ghouls show up.
That half-orc didn't roll very well or was still a baby. :-D
Never enough hexes! If I didn't have need to spend my feats on other things I'd be burning them all on it. Now I need to get back to my vodka... err I mean potions.
I played a Witch from levels 5-12 who abused Slumber and my recommendation is, don't take it. ...snip...
** He loved throwing single, big dumb powerful magical beasts at us. This allows slumber's no HD limit to shine and they tend to be weak on will saves. And even if they weren't weak, the evil eye/misfortune combo softened them up.After our Witch Slumbered a big bad nasty beast (purple worm? that giant hot millipede thing that lives in cold places and I can never remember what they're called?) and the barbarian coup de graced it to death, one of my groups came up with this house rule:
a coup de grace is an auto-crit (with a crit card). no fort save.
It makes Slumber still a great hex, but /usually/ encounters are such that either the target has a chance of being woken up by a minion, OR if he's a single enemy, he's badass enough to at least survive a single crit, even from the halforc with a greataxe. It keeps things fun.
Conversely, it really helps out the party when the ghouls show up.
Yea I guess it can be solved via house rules, but so can most problems. Better to just not use it, and that's from my experience (not theory crafting) but your mileage may vary.
AS for the 1/round per level of Slumber, it'd be rough for a level or two but levels 5+ (when I played a Witch), the duration was never an issue. At later levels you can even take feats to allow you to try again if they save the first time and to slumber two enemies at once. My team was coordinated enough to figure out to protect me, and coup de grace the enemy in a timely manner, even eating AoO's was worth it most of the time.
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No, the average Witch doesn't have Weapon finesse BUT most of their Familiars do, and since you can designate your familiar as the "toucher" AND share the Spectral hand with them they can deliver your multi-charge touch spells for you while you continue to hex your target into oblivion.
How do you apply share spell to spectral hand? The spell doesn't target you, so there's nothing to share. It doesn't even have target line.
As for the spell trigger/spell completion items you are incorrect. The errata is only applied to the craft potion feat, all other creation feats can simply increase the DC by 5 to bypass that restriction. This was a nerf exclusive to Brew potion.
You only read the part of the FAQ that you like. The full text is this:
Brew Potion: Can a character with this feat create a potion of any spell he knows simply by adding +5 to the DC, even without preparing it? (page 549)
No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation. This is an exception to the normal rules that allow a caster to skip one of the prerequisites for crafting an item by adding +5 to the DC.
Update: Page 549, in the Magic Item Creation rules, in the second paragraph, change the last sentence to read as follows.
In addition, you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites.
It say to update the text itself, which is basically an errata. And in that text, there is no exception one way or the other.
I'd even say a "single-use use activated wondrous item", as you suggest, is a spell trigger item under this rule. But that's more more myself being reasonable and there no hard RAW to back it up.|
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No, the average Witch doesn't have Weapon finesse BUT most of their Familiars do, and since you can designate your familiar as the "toucher" AND share the Spectral hand with them they can deliver your multi-charge touch spells for you while you continue to hex your target into oblivion.How do you apply share spell to spectral hand? The spell doesn't target you, so there's nothing to share. It doesn't even have target line.
As for the spell trigger/spell completion items you are incorrect. The errata is only applied to the craft potion feat, all other creation feats can simply increase the DC by 5 to bypass that restriction. This was a nerf exclusive to Brew potion.You only read the part of the FAQ that you like. The full text is this:
Brew Potion: Can a character with this feat create a potion of any spell he knows simply by adding +5 to the DC, even without preparing it? (page 549)
No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation. This is an exception to the normal rules that allow a caster to skip one of the prerequisites for crafting an item by adding +5 to the DC.
Update: Page 549, in the Magic Item Creation rules, in the second paragraph, change the last sentence to read as follows.
In addition, you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites.
It say to update the text itself, which is basically an errata. And in that text, there is no exception one way or the other.
I'd even say a "single-use use activated wondrous item", as you suggest, is a spell trigger item under this rule. But that's more more myself being reasonable and there no hard RAW to back it up.
We share the spectral hand ability the same way we have been doing everything in this thread. Craft Wondrous Item. Craft a limited use item that lets you use spectral hand a few times per day and give it to your familiar. It will use it's massive UMD bonus to always be able to use said item (or you just give them a wand of it if you don't want to make a custom item).
The errata (that is not in the faq as a change by the way) is another reason why I ignore all other Item Creation feats besides CWI. There are only 2 ways to make a use activated item in the game, Brew Potion which has been nerfed specifically and CWI which so far hasn't been touched, leaving it the only way to make an item anyone can use.
There is a HUGE deference between a Spell Trigger/Spell Completion item and a Use Activated item, the first 2 require you to actually have spell casting ability (sometimes a very specific spell casting class) while Use activated is the designed so anyone can use it.
If you start ruling that use-activated is the same as spell trigger then no more potions of cure X for half the classes in the game not to mention the magic swords and armor, rings of invisibility or cloaks of resistance.
You sure you want to go down that route?
@Yosarrian, Familiars aren't that fragile and if you are concerned about it then invest in a Stone Familiar item, it's like a External Harddrive for all your spells. You'll never worry about losing your spells again.
I've recently built a witch, and I've noticed that there are a LOT of hexes I want. Right off the bat I like Evil Eye, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune, Flight, Cauldron, and a few others. At level one I'm taking Evil Eye and cackle, with Cauldron at level 2.
My question is, how bad of an idea is it to keep taking Extra Hex as a feat? I know hexes are about as good as a feat in some cases, but I know I should probably take other feats as well. Any thoughts?
Hexes are the best part of the witch. I guarantee you will rarely use your spells.
You want Accursed Hex and Split Hex as fast as possible.
Be human so you can get 2 feats. Take Extra Hex twice. Start with Cackle, Evil Eye, and Slumber.
Next get Fortune, Misfortune, Flight, Healing, Scar, Prehensile Hair, and at level 10 take Ice Tomb.
Do NOT take claws. As long as Prehensile Hair is your only natural weapon you get 1.5 times your int bonus on attacks and damage.
Coven, Child Scent, and the other evil ones are for villains so not useful for good-alligned witches.
The errata (that is not in the faq as a change by the way) is another reason why I ignore all other Item Creation feats besides CWI.
The errata is in the FAQ. LINK
Also, I'm pretty glad that it has been cleared up. If you wouldn't need the spell prepared to craft these items, every level 1 Wizard could scribe scrolls of Miracle. Not to mention that every wizard would have every spell in his spellbook because he could simply scribe a scroll of every spell and add it to his book.There is a HUGE deference between a Spell Trigger/Spell Completion item and a Use Activated item, the first 2 require you to actually have spell casting ability (sometimes a very specific spell casting class) while Use activated is the designed so anyone can use it.
I'm aware of this difference. That's why I said I would see Use Activation items as spell trigger for this rule - the crafting rule.
Ah well, I personally think you are taking the custom item rules way too far. Different play styles, I suppose. I'd just advice anyone who uses that for their character planning to check with their GM first.