Concentration: what sort of check is it?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The title says it all. What is a concentration check? There seem to be four options, each with varying levels of legitimacy.

1: As a check that relies on the modifier granted by the spellcaster's casting ability score, it seems possibly like an ability check. But it also incorporates caster level.

2: Because it uses a function of level plus mod, it seems like a skill check.

3: Because it uses spellcaster level, it seems like a caster level check, but it also uses the ability mod.

4: It might just be "only" a concentration check, a unique check of its own.

The evidence seems to point at #4, which then begs the question: what can penalize a concentration check? Bestow Curse? Evil Eye? Wish?

Are there any effects that explicitly penalize concentration? Or does a sickened, frightened, entangled, and cursed spellcaster get to make his concentration checks at no penalty besides having to make them at all?

Just looking for a little clarification and a lot of input. Thanks in advance.

Grand Lodge

It used to be #2, back in 3.5E.

Pathfinder made it #4, but I would think that anything that penalizes your d20 rolls in general would also affect Concentration checks.

Remember that a Concentration check when grappled, you actually have to make the check against the grappler's CMD, modified by the spell level. That can make it a fairly nasty check, right there.


I'd say that it is ability check and caster level check so anything that penalizes/benefits ability checks or caster level checks applies.

Sickened, shaken and cursed (via bestow curse second option), evil eye penalizing ability checks should affect concentration check. Entangled don't penalizes concentration check (it applies penalty to attack roll and Dexterity score - ok it would grant penalty to concentration check if the character was some sort of weird Dex-based spellcaster) but it enforces one in the first place.

It certainly isn't a skill check because it does not uses any skill. Being a function of a level is different than being skill - the level decides maximum number of ranks in skill and skill ranks to distribute but does not directly affect skill.


#4.

It's enhanced by things that enhances your actual CL and stat modifier (rare), not by effects that add to CL checks or [ability] checks (common). However, plenty of effects specifically add to concentration checks.


It is its own check. It is not a caster level check because it does not only use the caster's level. It is not an ability check, because it uses more than your ability score, which is how RAW defines both.


What kinevon said, except that it's CMB (not CMD); see pg. 206 for details. Option #4 for RAW. See Bit of Luck on pg. 45 for an example of something that actually affects all d20 rolls.


wraithstrike wrote:
It is its own check. It is not a caster level check because it does not only use the caster's level. It is not an ability check, because it uses more than your ability score, which is how RAW defines both.

Where the rules define ability check as a check that is adjusted only by ability modifier? I could not find RAW definition of ability check at all - I expected that there will be "ability check" definition in Getting Started section but there wasn't.

You are right that it isn't caster level check as it is defined in Spell Resistance part of Magic section. Still, anything that adjusts caster level is applied to concentration check. Anything that adjusts caster level check specifically is not (Spell Penetration).


Drejk wrote:
Where the rules define ability check as a check that is adjusted only by ability modifier? I could not find RAW definition of ability check at all - I expected that there will be "ability check" definition in Getting Started section but there wasn't.

It's scant, but it's there. Earlier today, I checked the index of the CRB, and it said that there was something for ability checks on pg. 15. All that I could find was the third sentence under Ability Scores.

Pg. 15 wrote:
While a character rarely rolls an ability check (using just an ability score), these scores, and the modifiers they create, affect nearly every aspect of a character’s skills and abilities.

So, there you go.


Drejk wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
It is its own check. It is not a caster level check because it does not only use the caster's level. It is not an ability check, because it uses more than your ability score, which is how RAW defines both.

Where the rules define ability check as a check that is adjusted only by ability modifier? I could not find RAW definition of ability check at all - I expected that there will be "ability check" definition in Getting Started section but there wasn't.

You are right that it isn't caster level check as it is defined in Spell Resistance part of Magic section. Still, anything that adjusts caster level is applied to concentration check. Anything that adjusts caster level check specifically is not (Spell Penetration).

To be clear a caster level check involves the caster level only, that does not mean Paizo can't make a feat or ability to improve upon it, especially for specific situations such as spell penetration.

Grand Lodge

It's not an ability check or a caster level check, although it is a check based on a ability score and on caster level. It's not a skill check or a saving throw. It is a d20 roll.

Neither evil eye, misfortune, sickened, shaken nor the second application of bestow curse affect it. I'm not sure what you thought entanglement might do. The last (or rather second-to-last) application of wish can force or allow a caster to reroll a concentration check. The last application of limited wish can probably impose a -7 penalty to one.


Fredrik wrote:

It's scant, but it's there. Earlier today, I checked the index of the CRB, and it said that there was something for ability checks on pg. 15. All that I could find was the third sentence under Ability Scores.

Pg. 15 wrote:
While a character rarely rolls an ability check (using just an ability score), these scores, and the modifiers they create, affect nearly every aspect of a character’s skills and abilities.
So, there you go.

Seems that part is different on PRD, if I managed to locate it correctly.

EDIT:

Quote:
ach character has six ability scores that represent his character's most basic attributes. They are his raw talent and prowess. While a character rarely rolls a check using just an ability score, these scores, and the modifiers they create, affect nearly every aspect of a character's skills and abilities.

I'd consider FAQing this to determine if the designers intent was that bonuses/penalties to all ability checks (like sickened/shaken) should apply to concentration checks or not.


So, while the first aspect of my post is clarified (concentration checks are their own unique brand of check, #4) the second part still remains valid.

Can really nothing short of Wish penalize concentration? I know my ability to concentrate is hampered when I am tired, sick, genuinely afraid, or otherwise hampered significantly. Just strikes me as terribly odd that conditions such as sickened, shaken, and fatigued don't affect concentration.


Just to confusing things Ability checks can be more than just a d20 + Ability.

Page 178 of the CRB (assuming this hasn't been subject to errata);

"An initiative check is a Dexterity Check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells..."

If modifiers can apply to checks makes a big difference to a Charisma based caster with a Circlet of Persuasion.

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