Hello! trying to get advice on a build for my PC. I'm currently trying to get accepted to a PbP campaign for Rise of the Runelords.
It looks like the group needs a front line character for combat, and while I have a concept that I like, I'm not sure if it will fill the place that the group is looking for. So I'm asking for help from everyone to see if I can make this gel right.
It's a 20pt build, and it looks like the group is currently lvl 2.
The basic idea, which is fairly malleable, is a wandering Ulfen sellsword. My mind is currently focused on a Fighter/Two Weapon Warrior mixed with a Ranger/Skirmisher.
Would a build based along these lines be effective? If not, what sort of build would stick with the concept of a deadly frontline fighter with skills?
Any and all help is welcome and treasured!!!
|
Multiclassing Fighter and Ranger is odd and unlikely to be that effective, IMO. I'd just go straight Ranger. Single-classing is usually just a good plan in Pathfinder.
Mechanically, you're likely better off going Switch-Hitter or something like that than Two-Weapon Fighting, but if you want to, TWF is certainly a viable option.
Assuming you go that route, stat-wise, as a Ranger, you're likely most optimized with something like this:
Str 18
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7
That gives you good stats and spells, lets you grab TWF at 1st level so you can have Double Slice as your 2nd level bonus, and leaves a third Feat free for all sorts of options.
You should probably also grab Humanoid (goblinoid) as your first Favored Enemy, just because, well, RotRL.
Personally, I'd get Dex 14, Int 12, and grab Double Slice at 3rd, not 2nd, and have two Feats free.
If going switch hitter, your Feats are even easier (Power Atack, Furious Focus or maybe Iron Will, and Rapid Shot), and you definitely go with the Dex 14, Int 12 stat layout.
Those are both good starting places and I'm sure there will be plenty of people who can come up with some good builds for either of those. Another route you may want to look at is a Barbarian.
From a mechanics point of view, Barbarians have lots of hitpoints and can take lots of hits before they go down. The Rage ability enhances that as well as their strength so that can dish out a lot of damage as well.
From a role playing standpoint, I'm sure it would be all sorts of fun to play a berserker from the north. Perhaps he's caused too much trouble for even his own kin, so now he travels from town to town, wherever he can find food and lodging for the night, selling his swordarm to whomever is brave or foolish enough to hire him.
Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 12
If you're going for a human toss the +2 bonus to either Strength or Constitution (personally I would go Con), or you could even go with a Dwarf which would go well with the Ulfen region.
Lock your feats into something fun like Power Attack (and Cleave if you are a Human and get the extra feat), or something similar so you can start diving into the battle and tearing up whatever your GM throws at you. Of course you could always go the Two Weapon route as well in which case I would Recommend Two Weapon Fighting and Double Slice with an Axe and a sword (or a smaller axe, or a hammer, whatever fits your flavor).
Well that's what I came up with anyway.
|
|
"Switch Hitting" is good for Archers or someone with the ability to enhance a bow (Magus or Paladin), but awful for someone with 14 dex.
I disagree.
I am far from alone. And anyone who can't find a way for a Fighter to casually deal with flying stuff isn't trying very hard.
The Switch Hitter looks very interesting, and goes pretty close to my initial idea for the character. I notice the guide you reference doesn't take into account the archetypes. How would they alter the approach?
The group looks like they need either someone to dish out the damage quick or someone to be able to soak damage (or just draw fire). So I'm curious about how well I can fit that role.
I thought of the Barbarian angle as well, but there's already another barb in the mix, and I'm really reluctant to style-bite. Plus, the image in my head was of a skilled, honed, warrior rather than the usual frothing at the mouth engine of mayhem viking. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you. Plenty of fun. I was just trying to turn the Ulfen on their heads a bit.
Oh btw, theporkchopxpress, awesome name.
"Have ya paid your dues, Jack?"
A Fighter with a good Bow and moderate DEX can handle most flying enemies.
I have to disagree with the guide on the case of Hunter's Bond. Sometimes sharing your Favored Enemy bonus is more beneficial.
Onto my thoughts:
This is a game. Play what you feel will be fun. If people give you a hard time for not optimizing. Ignore Them! Again this is a game.
If you think you will enjoy that character concept play it.
My 2cp on a build like your Fighter/Ranger:
If you get weapon training from being a Fighter focus on something like Light Blades or Axes or something that is easily Duel Wielded and in a single weapon group. Two-Weapon Fighting takes finesse to accomplish. Which if you want buff DEX with a moderate STR score and you can get Weapon Finesse (using light weapons or a rapier or some such) and be pretty good with a bow.
While you might not be a Heavy Hitter you can throw up Lead Blades later on and increase your damage. Same goes with Gravity Bow. Just so long as you don't dump STR you should be fine.
Memorable characters aren't the Min-Maxed optimized ones, they are the ones you have fun with.
|
|
The Switch Hitter looks very interesting, and goes pretty close to my initial idea for the character. I notice the guide you reference doesn't take into account the archetypes. How would they alter the approach?
Honestly? Not every character needs an archetype. For what you seem to be aiming for, straight Ranger is great. Maybe Skirmisher if you don't want spells or Falconer if you just think it's cool (or both).
The group looks like they need either someone to dish out the damage quick or someone to be able to soak damage (or just draw fire). So I'm curious about how well I can fit that role.
Shooting things a bunch works pretty werll for this. Archers deal a lot of damage, and getting things to melee you is very much to a Switch Hitter's advantage. ASside from that, there really isn't much that can make things attack you.
On another note, if you go Animal Companion (and not Falconer), the Bon Companion Feat is a must-have.
I'd stick straight ranger too. And Infiltrator or Skirmisher are two pretty good archetypes for the ranger.
If you decide to switch hit, follow the guide and you'll be fine. I've GMed for several strong switch hitting rangers. But...
Two-weapon fighting isn't weak, especially if you drop the Dex to 14 or lower and concentrate on Str. Power Attack actually works really well with two-weapon rangers that have someone to flank with (animal companion), someone to trip enemies (wolf animal companion), or against their favored enemies.
Speaking of favored enemies, I'm not spoiling anything by saying you should consider Undead and Giants for the first two favored enemy choices. Both feature heavily throughout the campaign. Goblins is a poor choice as you pretty much leave them behind after the first adventure.
-TheThousandfold
"Yes sir, the check is in the mail."
:)
Do you have any idea how you want to split your Fighter and Ranger levels? Are you a trained soldier with some expert survival training, or are you a backwoods mercenary who spent some time with a small organized militia or guard.
Whatever your concept is I'm sure there's something that can be made to fit, although most people will probably say to take a small dip into Fighter and go the rest as Ranger.
Thanks guys!
Well, the rough background is that he hails from Trollheim. Cut his teeth fighting with the Blackravens, and has travelled south seeking fortune and adventure. I pictured a tall lean, but powerful, cunning warrior. The word cunning actually traces its roots to someone who could fight with both or either hand. So I imagined a broadsword paired wih an axe.
I definitely want him to be able to hold his own, or more so, when he's up close and personal. The RPing comes first, but I want him to function as well. He wouldn't accept anything less.
Any concept can be made a reality. If you want a Fighter/Ranger go ahead.
My Golarion Knowledge is admittedly lacking... But Blackravens are mostly Rangers correct?
if so a Ranger centric build is fitting. Say a 15/5 build ratio would work well.
So using Longsword stats for the Broadsword and say a Hand Axe/Throwing Axe(melee and ranged in one) for the axe would probably be fitting, no?
|
Generally? No. Two Weapon Fighting is really only good when you have a source of bonus damage on attacks...
Would a build based along these lines be effective? If not, what sort of build would stick with the concept of a deadly frontline fighter with skills?
Do you mean like favoured enemy?
On topic, the most optimal choice is likely pure ranger. I would only dip into fighter if I was hurting for feats (and rangers get a lot of these anyway).
As a skeleton, I would go with something like this:
1 Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (handaxe or throwing axe)
2 Double Slice
3 Endurance, Power Attack
4
5 Quick-Draw
6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7 Deadly Aim or Improved Initiative
8
9 Critical Focus
10 Two-Weapon Rend
It would be more optimal for you to choose the same weapon to TWF with, but it's really just a matter of +1 to attack.
Have you considered favoured enemy yet?
I'm thinking Giants, since I know they get fairly thick in RotRL.
Ok here's what I came up with for ya, not sure if you'll like it or not but anyways:
Human Fighter 4/Ranger (Infiltrator/Skirmisher) 12
Str 14 (18 at 16th level) Dex 15 Con 16 (18 after racial bonus), Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
BAB +16, Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +5, CMB +20, CMD 32 (at 16th level)
1. Ranger 1 - Favored Enemy (goblin +2), Track, Wild Empathy, (B) Exotic Weapon - Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus - Bastard Sword
2. Ranger 2 - (Combat Style) Two Weapon Fighting
3. Fighter 1 - (B) Double Slice, Quick Draw
4. Fighter 2 - (B) Power Attack, Bravery +1
5. Fighter 3 - Armor Training 1, Improved Initiative
6. Fighter 4 - (B) Weapon Specialization - Bastard Sword
7. Ranger 3 - Endurance, Adaptation (Goblin/Nat AC +2), Two Weapon Defense
8. Ranger 4 - Hunter's Bond (Companions)
9. Ranger 5 - Favored Enemy (giants +4), Furious Focus, Hunter's Trick
10. Ranger 6 - (Combat Style) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11. Ranger 7 - Woodland Stride, Improved Critical - Bastard Sword, Hunter's Trick
12. Ranger 8 - Swift Tracker, Adaptation (giant/lunge)
13. Ranger 9 - Evastion, Hunter's Trick, Weapon Focus - Handaxe
14. Ranger 10 - Favored Enemy (Undead +4), (Combat Style) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15. Ranger 11 - Quarry, Hunter's Trick, Weapon Specialization - Handaxe
16. Ranger 12 - Camouflage
I didn't pick out the Hunter's Tricks, and you could shuffle the feats around of course
What about a rogue dip?
Take the advice of anybody who claims an entire core class is not viable with a grain of salt.
The "Fighters are useless because they can't fly" has actually been lampooned to all hell on this board, and recently. Fighters can do insane amounts of damage and can be lots of fun -- but I find they have (at least at low levels) less to contribute out of combat.
The "fighters can't fly" argument is taking for granted that an ally in your party isn't casting a spell on you, and that you have to spend an action drinking a potion or using an item to allow yourself to fly. This is a ridiculous argument - as this is a team game, and not being able to do something instantly, independently, and free... is NOT the same thing as not being able to do something.
I apologize also for bringing the dead horse into the thread... "Fighters can't fly" arguments belong in the threads titled after them, where they can be appropriately rebounded eternally without convincing anybody beyond what they already had decided in the first place.
But if you want to be a fighter -- be a fighter. Don't become a synthesist because "fighters suck."
Wow! Lots of things to mull over.
Thanks a lot! This makes it alot easier. Incidently looks like the PbP game I was applying for got their missing player back, so I'm pretty much free to go any direction I wish. I'm sure I'll find a game.
If there's anything else we can do to help just let us know!