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Discussion has been had indicating that Witch Patron Spells which are given before a Witch could cast the spell at it's normal Witch/Wizard/Cleric (or whatever) level become a spell of the highest level the witch can cast (usually meaning they get it a spell level early).
Looking at the Hypoboreal Patron and Winter Witchcraft text, it is pretty clear the intent is to replace the patron spells from levels 6-15 with another set of spells (assuming that the witch starts taking the PrC as soon as possible and sticks with it) and then allow progression to pick back up at 16th level right where it should be without any lag.
I say 6-15 based on the regular spells levels of the granted spells (Ice Spears is 3rd level spell, Hyperboreal Patron would effectively grant it at 6th level for the witch. Freezing Sphere synchs up so that it's gained at 12th level either way if the Witch had the Winter Patron previously.)
Hyperboreal PatronA winter witch's patron reeals an icy aspect, granting her the following spells as patron spells at the following class levels: 1st-ice spears, 3rd-wall of ice, 5th-icy prison[/i], 7th-freezing sphere, 9th-fire storm(deals cold damage instead of fire). These replace any patron spells a winter witch might receive from a previous class.
Winter Witchcraft: Levels of the Winter Witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining a winter witch's spells per day, spells gained at each level, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch's familiar, and the level at witch she can select major hexes or grand hexes.
All in all, it's rather neat; the PrC more or less allows the PC to swap in levels with almost zero lag for base class abilities. But I'm left with a ton of questions about how it works.
1) Winter Witchcraft is gained at 1st level and specifically calls out spells gained and spells per-day. However, in the column usually reserved for spellcasting increases/spells per day the table instead lists "+1 level of witch class"...from 2nd level on.
So, does Winter Witchcraft skip a level (1st) in regard to spells per day/caster level? Does this only impact spells per day and not spells gained, or do all of the Witch's class features lag behind by 1 level (hex & ability DCs/progression, spells gained)?
2) I also am curious; Winter Witchcraft calls out "spells gained". Does this mean that the Winter Witch still gets their "2 free spells per level" for their familiar, unlike every other caster class in regards to spell book style spell casting? (I'm assuming yes.)
3) What spell level are non-witch Hyperboreal Patron spells granted way beyond the "ideal" progression (6th-15th) I saw above? For the sake of illustration, we'll assume the Winter Witch is lagging behind a caster level for the time being. That seems to be the norm for PrCs.
But let's say I take all 10 levels of base class witch first. Then I start taking levels in Winter Witch for 11-20. At level 13, Wall of Ice is granted to me. If I took the PrC as soon as I qualified (5th), this would have made Wall of Ice a 4th level spell (gained at 8th level). But because I'm gaining it at 13th, does this mean Wall of Ice (normally Sor/Wiz 4) is a 6th level spell for my character (the highest level a Witch 10/Winter Witch 3 can cast). In turn, does this mean that Icy Prison will be a 7th level spell (Normally Sor/Wiz 5)? Freezing Sphere 8th (normally Sor/Wiz 6)? Fire Storm 9th (normally Sor/Wiz 7)?
If so, this is going to create an interesting amount of PC variation based on just when you started taking levels in Winter Witch (ranging from getting a spell a level early to two levels late). I definitely love what the PrC is doing. It's expanding on an archetype even further and blending rather seamlessly with it...but only if you take the PrC ASAP. Otherwise it becomes a bit of a headache.
It is also my problem!
About the 1) and 2) questions, I think:
1) You gain new spells per day every level, but not the first level of the PrC
2) You gain new spells to add to your list of spells know€$ (2 every level), because your familiar keep on get level too.
hmm, just my opinion about the first 2 question.
I do not know about the third...
Question 1 and 2:
On the first level of the PrC the winter witch does not gain a level of spells or free spells per day. However all other witch class abilities continue to progress as if you were a normal witch.
Question 3:
The spell level of the spell is usually the equivalent sorc/wizard spell level. Wall of Ice is always a 4th lvl spell. Icy prison is 5th level. Freezing sphere is 6th. The spell level for these spells would remain the same no matter when
On a related note:
The Hyperboreal Patron text you have quoted does not actually make sense for a PrC since they may retroactively add/remove spells from the witches spells known and those stored in her familiar.
According to here, those two abilities are slightly different than the book.
Hyperboreal Patronage
A winter witch’s patron reveals an icy aspect. A winter witch adds the following spells to her spell list at the following class levels, but does not automatically learn them:
3rd—wall of ice
5th—icy prison
7th—freezing sphereWinter Witchcraft
Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when she learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch's familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes.
This writing makes more sense and is a lot clearer. But I am wondering how correct it is...
The book version is out of date, the SRD has the errata.
Oh, thanks! I get the errata version. Much more clear now! Thank you very much.
But now...New question came into my mind!
PrC Winter Witch, gain or do not gain new spells know with new level in the PrC?
I mean, Witch spells are related with the familiar... so if the familiar gets level, should the Witch gets the spells, or not?
For sure, at 1st level, PrC Winter Wicth does NOT get any new spells per day. However, from second level PrC Winter Witch get new spells per day as the Witch base class. But this rule is or is not related with spells know?
hmm, I will try to be more clear:
Spells per day:
At the indicated levels, a winter witch gains new spells per day and patron spells as if she had also gained a level in the witch class. She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained except for additional spells per day and an increased effective level of spellcasting.
Winter Witchcraft:
Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when she learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch's familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes.
Witch's familiar:
[...]At each new witch level, she adds two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new witch level) to her familiar. A witch can also add additional spells to her familiar through a special ritual.[...]
Now the question is, PrC Winter Witch adds or does not add new spells to her familiar every level?
Or, the PrC Winter Witch adds new spells to her familiar only with special ritual? (Scrolls)
My problem is on the Witch's familiar, because it is the familiar that in fact, store the spells like a spellbook for the Witch. So for me, new level for familiar, new spells. But I am not sure about that...
Every level that the PrC Winter Witch has a "+1 level of witch class" in her table she gains the normal benefits of gaining witch spells. That includes the free spells stored in her familiar. However in the first level of the PrC the familiar does not gain free spells to store. The familiars abilities grow independently of any spells stored.
Are you sure?
Because:
"[...] She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained except for additional spells per day and an increased effective level of spellcasting. [...]"
This sentence make me not sure about it. I mean, I am sure I get spells per day, but I do not get any new spells known...
Also because at page 3 of "Paths of Prestige" they say:
"Many prestige classes grant characters additional spells per day, depending on their level in that prestige class. This is noted in a separate column in the prestige class’s table, under “Spells per Day.” Unless noted otherwise in the class features section of the prestige class, the spells granted by these prestige classes adhere to the following rules. At the indicated levels, a member of this prestige class gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class (Unless noted otherwise in the prestige class’s table, this spellcasting class can be either arcane or divine.) He does not, however, gain other benefits of that class other than spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous caster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If he had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a member of this prestige class, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for the purpose of determining spells per day."
Witch it is not a spontaneous caster class. That's mean, for me, that she gains no spells known with the prestige class Winter Witch, like a Wizard does not gain spells known with a prestige class.
Only can gain new spells known with the scrolls.
And so we learn. It has been FAQ'd that wizards do not gain the extra spells known. So I assume this would be true for witches as well.
Does a wizard (or other character that uses a spellbook), receive bonus spells to add to his spellbook when he gains a level in a prestige class that grants an increase to spellcasting?
No. The increase to his spellcasting level does not grant any other benefits, except for spells per day, spells known (for spontaneous casters), and an increase to his overall caster level. He must spend time and gold to add new spells to his spellbook.
I don't agree with this rule since it is simpler to blanket all casters under the same rule and puts yet another crimp on prestige classes in general but there we have it.
So I will rephrase my previous answer to:
Every level that the PrC Winter Witch has a "+1 level of witch class" in her table she gains the normal benefits of gaining witch spells but these never include extra spells known for her familiar.
My question was about the familiar, because witch "write" her spells on her familiar and not on a spellbook.
But with winter witch, familiar keeps on get level. So have doubt about it...
Anyway, if the Wizard works in that way, witch will work in the same way