Not sure if I'll end up playing this one or not, but I think I'd like to so I'm going to go ahead and ask for some advice on this build.
Disclaimer: I'm not particularly looking for an uber optimized character. I am looking for something that will be fun with lots of personality.
Basically I have something along the lines of Mandrake, the Magician (Yup, that cheesey old Defenders of the Earth cartoon) for this character concept. The well dressed magician that looks like he just walked off of a Vegas stage, and uses his various tricks/magic/what-have-you to solve mysteries and beat the bad guys.
My starting point is to run with a Human Bard with the Magician archetype and possibly even the Soundstriker archetype since the two are stackable, but these things are by no means mandatory.
I figure I will probably take on the Dilletante feat to make up a little bit of ground from losing Bardic Knowledge if I go the route I'm thinking. Possibly also some feats to increase the DC's of either Enchantment or Illusion based spells. Other than that though, the concept could go who knows where.
So, here we go. What sort of ideas do you all have?
Actually you have probably one of the best ideas with the Bard(Magician) not sure about the Soundstriker archetype...
These kinds of concepts are what the Bard is made for. Though an Illusionist Wizard would Also fit.
Thanks, Azaelas!
I agree that the Soundstriker doesn't really fit. I just recently realized that you could stack Archetypes, and was probably a little overly excited that I found a viable combo.
Also, I really like this concept over the traditional Illusionist simply because it isn't a wizard. I could almost see a little bit of playful competition between this character and a wizard character. Nothing like a little rivalry to keep things fresh in a party!
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I have a player in my PFS group named Fabulon Glitterati; a human illusionist who liberally uses Prestidigitation and other spells. Chose a goat familiar so it can pull a small cart since Fabulon has a 7 Str and sort of low Wis, but has high Int and good Charisma. Went Taldor for (stage) glory and their Fashionable trait that gives him a boost to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive when he dresses expensivily (aka gaudy) and chose one as a class skill, and took the Extra Traits feat to select traits that made Bluff and Perform class skills (may have also added Sleight of Hand, been a while since . Furthermore, he also took Magical Lineage (Prestidigitation) so he's casting Still or Silent sparkles and other effects as level 0 spells.
He used this liberally in some great ways
In Frozen Fingers of Midnight, have Bengeirr stripped to his skivvies in his goat pulled cart and paraded him through town, using Prestidigiation to change the underwear to pink with blue teddy bears on it.
In First Steps Pt 1, he performed a magic show for Auntie Baltwin's orphanage to distract the kids (and Auntie) while the sneakier party members rummaged through the house and found the black market goods.
If you've seen Kung Pow: Enter the Fist, he's done the Evil Betty line of "I'm a great magician, your clothes are BLACK!" and used the Silent Prestidigiation. He also paraphrases the Arrested Development line, "Illusions, fighter. Tricks are what Calistrians do for money."
In combat, he uses Blinding Ray, Color Spray, or hides behind the warrior, but he can contribute, and being a human with high Int means he has plenty of skill points to actually work as the party face or knowledge hound.
A bard can work just as well in this role since everything I listed is capable by a first or second level bard. So have fun with your showman and remember to ham it up as much as possible!
I think some other archetypes are viable for this build... if Arcane Duelist stacks... you could be like The Entertainer Samurai from Samurai 7... I can't remember his name off the top of my head...
These are some great options, team! I really appreciate the suggestions. I'll have to work in some divination spells because I definitely feel that will help grasp the concept of this elaborately dressed do-gooder/investigator that I'm trying to capture.
As for his methods of taking out the bad guys. I see him manipulating the finds of his foes like a master hypnotist/mentalist, so I forsee a lot of enchantment spells in his future, with a little conjuration and illusion to back it up.
I looked up the spell Summon Minor Monster, and about choked on my dinner as I visualized the character throwing his arms wide and having 1-3 celestial hawks or owls coming out of his sleeves, or maybe his hat, and harrying his opponents in a flurry of feathers. Yeah, that trick probably won't stick around past level 2, but it was still funny.
These are some great options, team! I really appreciate the suggestions. I'll have to work in some divination spells because I definitely feel that will help grasp the concept of this elaborately dressed do-gooder/investigator that I'm trying to capture.
As for his methods of taking out the bad guys. I see him manipulating the finds of his foes like a master hypnotist/mentalist, so I forsee a lot of enchantment spells in his future, with a little conjuration and illusion to back it up.
I looked up the spell Summon Minor Monster, and about choked on my dinner as I visualized the character throwing his arms wide and having 1-3 celestial hawks or owls coming out of his sleeves, or maybe his hat, and harrying his opponents in a flurry of feathers. Yeah, that trick probably won't stick around past level 2, but it was still funny.
Great a Pathfinder version of Patrick Jane from the Mentalist... And don't underestimate the power of a group of weak little beasties. Especially Eagles and oddly enough Frogs...
I think some other archetypes are viable for this build... if Arcane Duelist stacks... you could be like The Entertainer Samurai from Samurai 7... I can't remember his name off the top of my head...
Those two won't stack, no; Arcane Strike (AD) and Magical Talent (MAG) both replace Bardic Knowledge, Rallying Cry (AD) and Improved Counterspelling (MAG) both replace Countersong, Bonus Feats (AD) and Extended Performance (MAG) both replace Well-Versed, Bonus Feats (AD) Expanded Repertoire (MAG) both replace Versatile Performance, both classes gain Arcane Bond to replace Lore Master, but they each have rather exclusive stipulations on what they can pick, and Arcane Armour (AD) and Wand Mastery (MAG) both replace Jack of All Trades.
Yeah, Arcane Duelist wasn't really sitting as my cup of tea for this character anyway. They are a lot more "in your face" than I'm hoping to be with this character.
By the way, good call Azaelas, for drawing the connection between this character and Patrick Jayne, who would probably have given Mandrake, himself a run fo his money!
When I originally thought of stacking Magician and Soundstriker, it was mostly just out of curiosity. Although, in my head I imagined that the abilities came about from playing with sound at particular resonances, possibly by channeling a sound through a tuning fork and maybe a wand or some other piece of magical gear. In the end though, it would just be another bit of cool stacked on to an already cool concept. I may or may not do it. We'll see.
I think some other archetypes are viable for this build... if Arcane Duelist stacks... you could be like The Entertainer Samurai from Samurai 7... I can't remember his name off the top of my head...Those two won't stack, no; Arcane Strike (AD) and Magical Talent (MAG) both replace Bardic Knowledge, Rallying Cry (AD) and Improved Counterspelling (MAG) both replace Countersong, Bonus Feats (AD) and Extended Performance (MAG) both replace Well-Versed, Bonus Feats (AD) Expanded Repertoire (MAG) both replace Versatile Performance, both classes gain Arcane Bond to replace Lore Master, but they each have rather exclusive stipulations on what they can pick, and Arcane Armour (AD) and Wand Mastery (MAG) both replace Jack of All Trades.
I was afraid of that...
Yeah, Arcane Duelist wasn't really sitting as my cup of tea for this character anyway. They are a lot more "in your face" than I'm hoping to be with this character.
By the way, good call Azaelas, for drawing the connection between this character and Patrick Jayne, who would probably have given Mandrake, himself a run fo his money!
When I originally thought of stacking Magician and Soundstriker, it was mostly just out of curiosity. Although, in my head I imagined that the abilities came about from playing with sound at particular resonances, possibly by channeling a sound through a tuning fork and maybe a wand or some other piece of magical gear. In the end though, it would just be another bit of cool stacked on to an already cool concept. I may or may not do it. We'll see.
Yeah it was more of just a funny thought I had thinking of the Samurai 7 character... though a flashy swordsman would probably make a good sidekick character for this one.
And I love Patrick... it is just... he would probably be a level 50 Bard/Wizard(Enchanter or even Illusionist) Gestalt build.
Yeah it was more of just a funny thought I had thinking of the Samurai 7 character... though a flashy swordsman would probably make a good sidekick character for this one.
And I love Patrick... it is just... he would probably be a level 50 Bard/Wizard(Enchanter or even Illusionist) Gestalt build.
Well the original Mandrake did have his companion Lothar who took care of the rough stuff, and of course Patrick has all of those handy FBI agents (if I'm using the wrong agency, I apologize to fans of the Mentalist, it's been a while since I could watch the show), so having some muscle bound backup is always a good thing lol.
Naa Patrick is too classy to be bogged down with all of that stuff. I figure he's just got 10 levels/tiers/spheres/woodchucks of Mythic backing him up. That's why he's so awesome!
Going to add that the Magician is a really sweet archetype, though! I've had the opportunity to play one, and it is super fun. If you have a lot of spellcasters in your party, they will love you forever for the Dweomercraft performance, and don't forget that it benefits you, too -- start your Dweomercraft before you cast Haste on the party and that's a few extra rounds of haste, start it before your Mirror Image yourself and that could net you an extra image, etc etc etc...
From an optimizing perspective Expanded Performance isn't that exciting (I can't not recommend taking Lingering Performance with every bard, in order to take advantage of the Finale spell line), but Expanded Repertoire is crazy amazing fantastico. Do not underestimate the boost you're giving yourself in the combats by adding Magic Missile and Scorching Ray to your spells known as a bard :) and you'll probably give yourself an extra missile with Dweomercraft every time until you hit the missiles cap with your level.
The Arcane Bond is probably best taken in a wand, because 1) you can run around like a Harry Potter character waving it around when you cast spells, and 2) it'll get you Craft Wand for free with respect to that particular wand; you craft your wand at a lower CL to save money, then use Wand Mastery to ignore all the drawbacks of having done that. Save money with no downsides whatsoever.
That is some sweet feedback Anetra! I am definitely looking forward to putting this plan into action. Of course I'll still need a game that I can play him in, but hey, that's just a technicality right?
I was definitely going with the wand route for the Arcane Bond. It just fits so well with the character and with all of those perks being icing on my concept cake, how could I resist?
If you get a GM that is relaxed like me you might could get a free level 0-1 wand as your arcane bond. Which reminds me I am looking into running an online campaign soon... after I figure out a method to do so.
P.S.: It was the CBI(California Bureau of Investigations).
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Ah, the CBI. I figured I was off, but at least it was only by one letter-ish.
If you figure out the online campaign thing and have an extra slot open, let me know. I always enjoy gaming with a new crowd.
If not, never fear, I will continue to lurk and post half-cocked-yet-interesting character concepts as my twisted lil brain gives birth to them.
Ah, the CBI. I figured I was off, but at least it was only by one letter-ish.
If you figure out the online campaign thing and have an extra slot open, let me know. I always enjoy gaming with a new crowd.
If not, never fear, I will continue to lurk and post half-cocked-yet-interesting character concepts as my twisted lil brain gives birth to them.
You will most likely be the first person I call...
Though this campaign will be in a early Final fantasy style world built around a hexcrawl exploration...
And on the character concepts... you and me both comrade... I have over 100 unique NPCs stated up. As well as 200+ generic NPCs.
Have you considered the alchemist? With UMD, magic items and constructs you could get all manner of stage tricks without actually being a caster, replicating the feeling of a stage magician and having a lot of skills as well...
Alchemist doesn't have the detective feel to it though... and I think that was the main thing with the Bard.
It's not a bad idea, Zmar, but for this particular character concept I like the Bard (Magician) a bit better. I actually have a different whacky idea featuring an Alchemist, but I'll give that one its own thread, once I get around to fleshing it out a little bit more.
Also if I get some time later today, I'll post what I'm thinking for the beginning build for the Stage Magician. Once it's up, feel free to suggest, critic, tear apart, or whatever you do best. Once again, this is mostly for fun, and if an interestingly engaging PC comes out of it for me, all the better!
If you want to hit the Mandrake theme remember 'Enemies crumble in fear and confusion!' when it comes to spell selection.
I'd also save up for a Cape of the Mountebank!
Hah! I was just thinking this over yesterday, and knew that a Cape of the Mountebank was a must have for this character! Good call, VoodooHoodoo!
And you're definitely right! We can't forget the theme song! I was figuring on Hypnotism as one of his low level spells, and picking up things like Confusion and various Illusions to warp the minds of the bad guys as he progresses.
The Amazing Waylon, Master of the Mystic Arts
Human, 1st level Bard (Magician/Soundstriker)
Abilities:
• Str 10 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 13 (+2 racial bonus) = 15
(I used the 15 point build)
Combat:
• BAB +0, CMB +0, CMD 12, Fort +0, Ref +4, Will +3
• AC 12 (+2 Dex), Touch 12, Flat Footed 10
(as this build does not yet take into account gear, I have left it pretty bare)
Racial Traits:
• +2 racial bonus to one ability score, Medium size, Speed – 30 feet, Bonus feat at 1st level, 1 additional skill rank per level
Class Traits:
• Bardic Knowledge, Cantrips, Distraction, Dweomercraft, Fascinate, Improved Counterspell, Magical Talent
Feats:
• Fast Learner (two favored class abilities instead of one)
o +1 skill point per level
o Add one spell known from the Bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the Bard can cast.
• Spell Focus (enchantment)
Skills:
• Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +6, Knowledge (arcane) +7, Perception +5, Perform (act) +6, Profession (entertainer) +5, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +7
Traits:
• (not really sure, obviously anything that makes him better at tricking people would be a plus, beyond that I’m not really sure where I want to go with this one, beyond that anything that would fit in with the style of the overly well dressed entertainer type)
Spells:
• Concentration +3
• 0 level spells (unlimited, DC 12)
o Detect Magic, Mending, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, and Read Magic
• 1st level spells (2/day, DC 13)
o Hypnotism (DC 12/14/16 depending on the situation) and Summon Minor Monster
Gear:
• (Again, kinda lost as the concept I’m working with is based off of a guy who never used weapons or armor. I’m sure I’ll have to suck it up and get some armor for adventuring purposes. Weapons would most likely be small things that are easy to conceal on his person via Sleight of Hand. I imagine various alchemical items would be great to have on hand for circumventing certain issues, although those are pretty expensive for a first level character to come by. Maybe I should go for the Rich Parents Trait?)
*****Well that’s what I have so far. What do you think?
bump-fu
If you want I could give this a whirl and have a Lvl 1 NPC up sometime tomorrow night.
Note: the NPC is more for myself... I always use arrays for my NPCs...
If you want I could give this a whirl and have a Lvl 1 NPC up sometime tomorrow night.
Note: the NPC is more for myself... I always use arrays for my NPCs...
Sure, Knock yourself out Azaelas! I'd be interested to see what you come up with!
Not really sure how this would all work out on an end game level but I have been thinking of saturating this character with the "Human" feats, and then a few extra that I think will just fit well with the character.
(In alphabetical order) Bestow Luck, Dauntless Destiny, Defiant Luck, Dilletante, Fast Learner, Fearless Curiosity, Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), Improvisation, Improved Improvisation, Inexplicable Luck, Spell Focus (enchantment).
Also, to Geekgumbo. I definitely appreciate your input on this. Unfortunately playing as an Elf/Dwarf/Gnome just doesn't fit with this particular concept, but I agree that the Breadth of Experience feat is quite nice! My main concern is how I am going to gear this guy up and still maintain the appearance of the travelling showman. This has got me vexed at the moment.
Glamoured Armor?
the NPC isn't agreeing with me...
Glamoured Armor would certainly work once you have achieved a high enough level to come into some magical gear, however, I am more concerned with what he's going to be running about with at levels 1-3. I think I'm probably going to have to deal with grabbing up some light armor, and there's already a precedent for using a cane as a club, but I don't know if I'm overthinking this too much and missing an element that could bring this to life.
Hmm to bad Armored Coat is Medium Armor...
Chain shirt could arguably be hidden under clothing.
-Crosswind
One of my fellow gamers here in the local group I play with suggested Silent Image over Summon Minor Monster at first level since it would only last one round. I laughed because you had already suggested switching Hypnotism for Silent Image. If I end up dropping one of the spells it will probably be the Summon, just because Hypnotism is Enchantment which is going to be the characters go to School.
-Azaelas
I thought the same thing about the Armored Coat (curses!). Oh well. Leather Armor or a Chain Shirt could easily go in until I can get some magical (and much less visible) armor.
I also figure as weaspons go, he'll probably be carrying a Cane (club) openly, but will have various other things hidden on his person via Sleight of Hand (a dagger hidden under a jacket or coat, brass knuckles concealed in a hidden pocket, or other things like that).
I was thinking the same thing...
Cane and hidden daggers, Maybe a hand crossbow for emergencies.
If you could get it a Sword Cane might even fit.
Yeah I had thought about the sword cane as well, but I really don't want to spend a feat in order to use it. I can use Sleight of Hand to conceal light weapons, so hidden daggers are probably going to be the way to go. Besides every good stage magician worth his salt has done the whole knife throwing trick, so I imagine that would be something that he's fairly comfortable with. I imagine this character will be spending the majority of this time supporting his allies and baffling his foes so melee will be a distant third option when he has to do it.
If you have a reasonable GM you might could get the Sword Cane as a form of Rapier.
Also the Dagger thing is True... Also in a firearms setting you can probably get a hold of a pocket pistol.