Help with my Aasimar Bard / Rogue Build for PFS

[Ill_Made_Knight]

Hey all,

I am brewing again and here are my thoughts on a Bard/Rogue build for PFS. She is going to be a support character/face.

Aasimar Bard10/Rogue2

Traits: Maestro of the Society, Reactionary

Favored Class (Bard) alt Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/2 level higher when determining the effects of that performance. I am choosing (Inspire courage).

Pathfinder Society 20 Point Buy

7 STR (-4)
14 DEX (5)
14 CON (5)
14 INT (5)
14 WIS (2) (+2 Racial)
17 CHA (7) (+2 Racial)

Feats

Brd1 Level 1 - Inspire courage +1, Feat: Improved Initiative
Rog1 Level 2 -
Rog2 Level 3 - Rouge Talent: Trap Spotter, Skill Focus (perception)
Brd2 Level 4 -
Brd3 Level 5 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Brd4 Level 6 - Inspire courage +2
Brd5 Level 7 - Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Brd6 Level 8 -
Brd7 Level 9 - Harmonic Spell
Brd8 Level 10 - Inspire courage +3
Brd9 Level 11 - Discordant Voice
Brd10 Level 12 -

Some people may ask, other then inspire courage how are you supporting the party, my response would be spells which would look like this:

Brd1 Level 1 - Grease, Saving Finale
Rog1 Level 2 -
Rog2 Level 3 -
Brd2 Level 4 - Liberating Command
Brd3 Level 5 - Feather Fall
Brd4 Level 6 - Glitterdust, Cacophonous Call
Brd5 Level 7 - ?
Brd6 Level 8 - ?
Brd7 Level 9 - Haste, Confusion
Brd8 Level 10 -
Brd9 Level 11 -
Brd10 Level 12

I need some help on the spells,

Her offensive abilities would consist of a cross bow till 5th level and after that she would be UMD scorching rays or acid arrows.

[Ill_Made_Knight]

Bump

[ossian666]

oooph I'd be REALLY worried about having 7 Str...carrying capacity and a lot of drain will be on that score...

Drop the Int to 10 and get str up to 10.

[ossian666]

Also can I ask why you are taking 2 levels in rogue?

[Ill_Made_Knight]

Sure,

In PFS, a lot of rogues go after the arch-types to be more combat effective, however they have to sacrifice trapfinding, and trap spotter which are the two most important (IMHO) things a rogue brings to the table to help out the party. They give up a very important ability that helps the entire party versus themselves. To be a great support character I figure I fill a roll that a lot of people abandon.

[Tristan Windseeker]

You may want to (instead of Rogue) consider a one level dip into Ranger, with both the Trapper and Freebooter archetypes. Trapper gives you trapfinding, and Freebooter gives you another nice party buff you can use...

I would also potentially consider lowering your WIS and INT scores to raise your Strength. Carrying capacity can be a fairly big issue.

You may also want to consider things like the "Flagbearer" feat (Inner Sea World Guide) for more party buffing fun.

[ossian666]

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:

Sure,

In PFS, a lot of rogues go after the arch-types to be more combat effective, however they have to sacrifice trapfinding, and trap spotter which are the two most important (IMHO) things a rogue brings to the table to help out the party. They give up a very important ability that helps the entire party versus themselves. To be a great support character I figure I fill a roll that a lot of people abandon.

Don't worry about other people...you shouldn't be the trap guy and if you are worried about trapped doors just go buy a 30 ft. pole and whack the doors before you walk up to them.

I'd suggest dropping the dip in Rogue all-together and just go staight Bard.

[Ill_Made_Knight]

The Freebooter sounds kewel, however, I would have to give up the rogue trap spotting ability which is too good. I don't think carry capacity will be an issue since the only thing she will wear is a Mithrial shirt and a mithrial buckler...and a lot of wands.

[ossian666]

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:

The Freebooter sounds kewel, however, I would have to give up the rogue trap spotting ability which is too good. I don't think carry capacity will be an issue since the only thing she will wear is a Mithrial shirt and a mithrial buckler...and a lot of wands.

I'd be more concerned with Ability Drain. Strength is one of the top stats that the enemies in PFS will be going after with poisons, disease and drain...the last thing you want is to be hit with a poison (having a lower fort save) and paralyzed in combat.

Its your character to ultimately it is your choice what you do, but I think most of us here will echo the same thing...the Str may become an issue and I think you will regret taking the 2 levels in Rogue...especially since you will more than likely be in the back of the group since you are a caster and a ranged combatant so any time they are openning doors and messing with doors you won't be within 10 ft. or you risk being stuck in the front when combat starts. Not to mention it will hurt your BAB.

[blackbloodtroll]

When did traps become such a big deal in PFS?

[ossian666]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

When did traps become such a big deal in PFS?

Eh they do come up occassionally...not quite as likely as needing a good party face, but even IF there is a trap its not gonna be a life or death situation.

[blackbloodtroll]

Seriously, where does this idea of an absolute need for an anti-trap focused guy come from?

I have never seen any really trap heavy PFS modules.

Is it from players of 2nd edition?

[ossian666]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Seriously, where does this idea of an absolute need for an anti-trap focused guy come from?

I have never seen any really trap heavy PFS modules.

Is it from players of 2nd edition?

LoL there aren't heavy trap PFS modules...maybe 1 trap in every 3 modules? 2 if you want to be generous.

[blackbloodtroll]

Okay, then where does the fervor come from?

[ossian666]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Okay, then where does the fervor come from?

Newbie? Falling into the old every group has to have a Wizard, Rogue, Fighter and Cleric mentality?

[blackbloodtroll]

Ah. With so many new classes and archetypes, that mentality is more than flawed.

[Muser]

There's the occasional trap and triggering that may have worse consequences than some teeny damage. Particularly in sanctioned modules. Alarms, having to drop cover, teleports, lost victory points, those sorts of things. Were it only damage, a tough melee character would be enough for traps. As it is, however, I'd keep my trapfinding options open. Especially if there's no characters with that kind of bent to them in the local area. It should not be a huge focus for any a character, but maximizing the ability as a side job is not an effort wasted.

[blackbloodtroll]

Find Traps spell, and various other trap locator/diffuser spells are helpful for that.

[Hector Gwath]

2e required a trapfinder. 3e and above basically got rid of that mentality. In 2e and before, a trap was designed to kill. in 3e and later, traps were designed to eat up resources (spells, potions, etc.), not to instantly kill one of the party members, if not all of them.

Tomb of Horrors (for example) is infamous in that way: Most of the traps are designed to kill an ENTIRE party, should they not have an adequate trapfinder.

[FancyZergling]

In my group our DM loves traps, not having a great trapfinder would just decimate our party resources.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, this is for PFS, so unless there's a new explosion of traps, it is low on the importance scale.

[Caderyn]

I wouldnt go crazy focused on finding traps (im currently running my 2nd PFS rogue character and in my time I have found only 1 scenario with 5+ traps which we completely disabled basically ruining all the encounters as 3 were alarm spells so the enemies could prebuff).

Getting trapfinding makes sense incase you dont want to waste dispel magic to remove magical traps but honestly someone else in the party can usually handle it better than taking a dip and delaying your casting/music, trap spotter is nearly worthless its only a 10ft radius meaning you have to be 2nd in line at worst to get a chance to spot the trap, which as a controller bard you dont want to be that close to the action when you encounter monsters.

[davidernst11]

I really don't understand having 14 intelligence for a Rogue or Bard build. Is it really going to make a huge difference having 9 skill points per level instead of 8 on average?

I'm not a huge fan of Bard's Inspire Courage. I play a bard, and I never feel like it's worthwhile to waste an entire standard action on starting Inspire Courage. I'm longing for hitting level 7 when it becomes a move action instead.

Instead, I think combining the Aasimar's Favored Class bonus with either the Archaelogist's "Archaeologist's Luck", or either the Dervish Dancer or Dawnflower Dervish's Battle Dancing is a better deal. Battle Dancing is a move action at level 1 and Archaeologist's Luck is a swift action to start. An Archaeologist also gains Trapfinding as well as Rogue Talents after a few levels, so if I was going to play a Rogue without focus on Sneak Attack, I would definitely go that route. A Dawnflower Dervish + Aasimar's Favored Class bonus is almost broken, as you can have Inspire Courage +8 by level 11 (although self only, that's still a huge bonus).

In general, I would advise against multiclassing a bard. Really, everything you get that's great in a bard comes about at level 7, and if you delay that by a couple levels, you'll be hurting compared to other characters.

Some advice on spells:

1
Ear-Piercing Scream - Basically a "Daze Anything" spell. Scales well with level, is about as useful at high levels as it is at low levels.
Hideous Laughter - An Aasimar counts as an outsider, which means this spell will work on some interesting enemies. You can take an alternate trait from Advanced Race Guide that lets you count as half-outsider/half-human, which would make this spell a bit more flexible.
Vanish - Up to five rounds of invisibility at higher levels. You will find this highly useful at higher levels.
2
Gallant Inspiration - If you are trying to be support most of all, immediate action spells can be quite useful.
Oppressive Boredom - I love these silly enchantment spells.
Suggestion - You get access to this earlier than other classes, so you might as well take advantage of it.
3
Crushing Despair - If you win initiative, this is a worthwhile opening tactic to try.
Good Hope - In my mind, this is the best buff spell in the game. It is minutes/level, compared to rounds/level for most other buffs, and it gives +2 to everything, including saves, for the whole party.
Mad Monkeys - One of the best summoning spells in the game. The little monkeys automatically cause damage, can distract the opponent, and make a disarm attempt each round. Plus, they don't require concentration and will actually listen to you.
Terrible Remorse - If they save, they are staggered for a round. If they don't, they damage themselves and have to save again next round.

Useful wands:
1
Invigorate - Remove fatigue or exhaustion for 10 minutes per charge.
Silent Image - Be creative, it allows no save unless interacted with, so its a great wand. A wand is better than the spell as no one can spellcraft what spell you are using, so the enemy could think you are really summoning a creature, or so forth.
2
Bestow Grace - A paladin spell. For four minutes, it gives you a bonus on all your saves equal to your Charisma modifier, which for a bard should be quite high.

[Shifty]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Is it from players of 2nd edition?

Guilty as charged.

I am starting to be less paranoid now though. 1st and 2nd ed were very trap heavy and the results were always very punishing.

[Duncan7291]

In response to one of my questions earlier this weekend, someone recommened an Azata blooded Aasimar Bard Dawnflower Dervish as a good build. This thread popped up when I searched but I notice that the last comment was 1.5 years old.

Is David's recommendations still valid after this passage of time and the release of new materials? Anyone have some supplemental recommendations from new source materials?

Thanks

[Sammy T]

Go straight Bard. If you want to be extra buffy, pick up the Flagbearer feat and then the Banner of Ancient Kings when you can afford it.

Pick up a trait that grants Disable Device.

During your career pick up the cheap +perception and +disable device items.

Most GMs are fine with you Taking 10 on Perception when traversing a dungeon. When you come to a door, just Take 20 on your Perception to check for traps. If it's a mechanical trap, you're johnny-on-the-spot. If it's a magical trap, either your caster can attempt to dispel it (or Summon Monster 1 trigger it) or just send in your highest Saves guy in to simply suffer through it.

The only trap I've seen been fatal in PFS was a spiked pit trap that ALSO had a haunt at the bottom of it. (Talk about bad luck.)

[Sammy T]

Oh holy crap, I just realized how necro'd this thread was.

[Duncan7291]

Thats why I asked. Did play in a game yesterday with Flagbearer and had some fun with it. There was a question as to whether the flag, placed on a long spear, could be used as a weapon (or something along those lines). I didnt follow the concept that much as I wasnt familar with the mechanics.

He looked it up on board and there seems to be a pretty large split on the issue.

[Chillsabre]

If you want to keep being a face/support character with a bit of trapfinding, consider the arcane trickster.

If you build Rogue 3/Oracle1/AT8, you can maintain as good party supporting abilities with the full cleric spell list, the oracle with haunt gives mage hand to qualify for the trickster. The only thing you may need assistance with is the race since daylight is a 3rd level spell and not 2nd second level and as a racial ability, it doesn't count for different levels.

A half-elf with the drow magic trait (for darkness) can allow you to qualify, so you end up with a lot of sneak damage, evasion, nice saves, caster lvl 9 as an oracle cha based with the full cleric support spell list, the ability to cast both still and silent spell 4 times per day as well.

This would overall gives you the same flavor but propably be more functional in terms of mechanics.

[Renegadeshepherd]

I hate to sound like a rogue hater but... With you be an aasimar your favored class bonus favors straight archeologist. 2 levels of rogue gains you nothing but a weak sneak attack and slightly earlier access to a rogue talent. The archeologist with fates favored can be adding +5 to skills, saves, attacks, damages by level 11. If you want rogue levels that's ok but bard is NEVER a good multi class for a rogue.