I'd be interested in some explaination on this subject as well.
I intend to use both items for my dragon disciple character specializing in natural attacks.
Do the body wraps of mighty strikes (for example: +2 flaming) stack with an amulet of might fists (for example: axiomatic dragonbane amulet)
I assume both items also work with natural attacks gained from items like Helm of the Mammoth Lord?
Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes: p 214
Amulet of Mighty Fists: p 255
Helm of the Mammoth Lord: p 244
Glad to be of help :)
I can see no reason why it should not work. Enhancement bonusses do not stack. Any other effect should stack.
Indeed. There are a few other items like the deliquescent gloves that would be handy to stack with the AoMF. I do see why the body wrap is a compromise, but the problem is it's the wrong kind of compromise. It's another example of an item for the monk that actually works better for non-monks.
What would have been more useful, but just as limited to make sure it doesn't get OP, is an item that added a bonus to hit only, rather than hit and damage, but that worked on all attacks. After all, the monk's problem is in hitting...
I am more interested in how the body-wrap will combine with whatever changes Paizo are thinking of with the monk, though. That's when it'll all come together.
The Monk is not fixable with items and each and every item introduced "for the monk" will simply make fixing the Monk harder.
So I am glad Paizo did not fall into this trap with UE.
In a way, I am too. You are quite correct in that an item fix isn't a real fix for the monk. At the same time, any fix has to address the deficiency of items that the monk has available to them and their dependency on said items.
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So, I don't really have my ear to the ground so much so maybe I've missed it, but has Paizo mentioned that they have any changes to the monk planned? This is the first I've heard it mentioned, wasn't sure if it was speculation or it's something that's happening. Thanks for all the responses so far!
They've said they'll "look at" the monk, but also said on numerous occassions that there won't be any major deviations from the material already presented in the Core Rulebook. I believe this is being left intentionally vague because many on the Dev team don't actually think the monk is broken.
I personally think the real issue with the monk is that it is a Core class that requires a fairly high degree of system mastery and is very easy to "mess up" with poor choices at low levels, and no real way to correct those errors at a later time (the way a fighter can reassign his bonus feats if he makes a bad choice). If you're not using an archetype, the basic monk requires a few fairly narrow path and gear choices to function well, and just isn't as forgiving or easy to run as most other core classes.
So, I don't really have my ear to the ground so much so maybe I've missed it, but has Paizo mentioned that they have any changes to the monk planned? This is the first I've heard it mentioned, wasn't sure if it was speculation or it's something that's happening. Thanks for all the responses so far!They've said they'll "look at" the monk, but also said on numerous occassions that there won't be any major deviations from the material already presented in the Core Rulebook. I believe this is being left intentionally vague because many on the Dev team don't actually think the monk is broken.
I personally think the real issue with the monk is that it is a Core class that requires a fairly high degree of system mastery and is very easy to "mess up" with poor choices at low levels, and no real way to correct those errors at a later time (the way a fighter can reassign his bonus feats if he makes a bad choice). If you're not using an archetype, the basic monk requires a few fairly narrow path and gear choices to function well, and just isn't as forgiving or easy to run as most other core classes.
Quite right. The monk is also extremely counter-intuitive, as currently written. When I say monk, what comes to your mind? Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Chuck Norris, David Carradine? That's what I picture. Strong men, to be sure, but also fast, dextrous, and just plain tough.
You don't picture the Rock, or John Cena, or other really bulked out strongmen, do you? Yet, in order to be effective, a monk has to bulk up his Strength at the expense of Dexterity, Wisdom, Constitution, and Intelligence (charisma is already so far gone, just put it at 8 and be done).
Why? Because Strength is what applies to your hits and damage. You could try a build focusing on Dex, but you can't get Weapon Finesse until 3rd level. And even then, Strength still affects you damage modifiers . . . and static bonuses mean more for a character in Pathfinder and 3.x than variable die. Sure, when you have 80,000 gp WBL (around 12th level or so), you can have a +1 agile amulet of the mighty fists to get your Dexterity modifier on damage. At 12th level.
Monks are fast; they get that super-speed and the ability to punch away at the speed of light! Except when they move more than 5'. And when you do that, your BAB goes down as well. So to fight, you have to stay in one spot, pretty much. Does that seem like a monk from fiction, literature, television, or cinema to you?
It doesn't to me.
I don't know what will save the monk class. The problems that we, as players and DMs, see are not the same problems that the designers and developers see. For my own games, I will use my own monk class instead of the Pathfinder one . . . but that isn't an option for people who play PFS or have a DM who is sticking to the core rules.
All I want is a monk who is a monk. An unarmed combat specialist, a martial artist, who has some mystical powers. Is that much? Compared to the ranger or the paladin or even the bard?
That is what I want to see, but I will not be holding my breath.
MA
I actually made an underfoot monk/halfling opportunist, which has a surprising amount of synergy. I'll never be dealing copious amounts of damage, but I'll be pesky! This character was just built to be a goofy but interesting combination of class features. And this item... well, it's pretty lacking for a character built around opportunity attacks :\ or for flurry of blows, or for most things. They really gave the unarmed fighter a lot of love, or maybe the monk a lot of spite.
But in general, yea, the monk is a bit underwhelming even WHEN it's being optimized for damage. To be honest, though, I've never sat at a table that's wanted for meat-headed damage dealer, though I definitely wish that monks had more ways they could contribute to a party. As is, they're like a 3.5 bard, without spells; at its core, decent at several things, but not really stellar at any.
The old joke: What good is a monk?
The monk is there so that when there would normally be a total party kill, he can run away, and then come back later with his portable hole and carry your bodies into town to get raised.
MA
What about using the bodywrap with the vital strike chain of feats to make a skirmisher? can you put lead blades and agile on a AoMF?
There's still going to be a maximum of +10 total, you'll just be able to get there cheaper. Paizo's been pretty firm that combining multiple sources still hits the +10 total enhancements hard limit.
==Aelryinth
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I'd like to see the monk get an ability like the Two Weapon Warrior's Dual Strike, where you can at least make two attacks as a standard action. Or even the ability to spend a ki to use your extra Flurry attacks as a standard? Maybe make it a scaling ability where starting at level 4 you can make two attacks as a standard, 3 at 10, and 4 at 16? That would allow you to combine your mobility and rapid attack speed, while still imposing a cost that prevents it from getting way out of hand.
If I were going to change anything else, it would probably be to give monks "fighting styles" like a ranger, where you can play a STR-based brawler, a Dex-based quick-hitter, or a WIS based monk whose focus rests more on ki abilities. Just a thought though.
I've managed to make some solid monks using the system as is, the problem is that a new player has a really hard time jumping into the class, particularly if he's trying to match one of those ideas like the Bruce Lee or Jet Li crazy fast little guy.
I'd like to see monks get something like clustered shot for their flurry, personally. That'd be cool.
That would solve a lot of the Damage Reduction issues, but it would be a must have feat.
I'd like to see the monk get an ability like the Two Weapon Warrior's Dual Strike, where you can at least make two attacks as a standard action. Or even the ability to spend a ki to use your extra Flurry attacks as a standard? Maybe make it a scaling ability where starting at level 4 you can make two attacks as a standard, 3 at 10, and 4 at 16? That would allow you to combine your mobility and rapid attack speed, while still imposing a cost that prevents it from getting way out of hand.
If I were going to change anything else, it would probably be to give monks "fighting styles" like a ranger, where you can play a STR-based brawler, a Dex-based quick-hitter, or a WIS based monk whose focus rests more on ki abilities. Just a thought though.I've managed to make some solid monks using the system as is, the problem is that a new player has a really hard time jumping into the class, particularly if he's trying to match one of those ideas like the Bruce Lee or Jet Li crazy fast little guy.
Yep. They have already done the pounce and double-strike abilities for classes that are meant to stand in the front-lines, but then they don't for a class with the mobility of a monk. It makes one scratch his head in wonder.
MA
1) No, they won't stack. Although if you plan on using a weapon in your main hand, and unarmed for your secondary weapon, it'll work better than the amulet.
2) You use your BAB, which is your level when flurrying.
LOL, yes Cheapy, but just think how boring these boards will be if they do fix the monk...
Am I the only one who doesn't see the problem with these items ? If you combine a AoMF +5 and a BWoMS +6 (wasting +1 on the latter so you can get +5 worth of special abilities), you get the equivalent of two +10 weapons, and for very close to the same price (within 4%). Unintuitive as it may seem, as long as you keep the enhancement on the amulet and the special abilities on the bodywrap, you should be able to mix and match while more or less keeping pace with other magic weapon wielders.
The only rebuttal I can really foresee is that it uses up slots for other things, like the Monk's Robe. In such a case, simply have someone craft a Monk's Cape for your shoulder slot (at +50% price, if deemed necessary), or wherever else you have an opening.
Just as a point of example, let's see why the following is an inappropriate comparison:
From a cost standpoint, it makes sense that it would. A +1 flaming longsword would be 8000 gp; a flaming amulet of mighty fists and a +1 bodywrap of mighty strikes would cost 8000 gp, and the latter bonus would (for a character with a bab lower than 6) only apply to one attack, plus you'd be spreading the bonuses across two items which takes up a lot of your equipment economy.
Since monks get the entire TWF series for free, one should consider their unarmed strikes to be equivalent to two identical weapons (although they are even more versatile than that).
Thus, here's a more fair comparison: two +1 flaming longswords cost 16630 gp, whereas a +1 amulet of mighty fists and a +1 body wrap of mighty flaming strikes together cost 16000 gp, and confer the same benefits.
And as I mentioned earlier, slot economy is indeed a problem, but not an intractable one for a player.
Bodywrap of Mighty Striking does not require the +1 bonus prior to adding special properties. BoMS has limited use per round equal to your main hand's number of attacks.
With those two exceptions, I totally agree this is the way to go for anyone who does natural or unarmed attacks.
Bodywrap of Mighty Striking does not require the +1 bonus prior to adding special properties. BoMS has limited use per round equal to your main hand's number of attacks.
With those two exceptions, I totally agree this is the way to go for anyone who does natural or unarmed attacks.
I suppose that's your call, but my point was that you don't even need houserules to get the same benefits at the same price. To houserule as above would be giving unarmed fellows a monetary advantage. (Not that you couldn't make a case for that, I suppose.)
So, the bodywrap of might strikes is pretty clearly a compromise between the poor monks out there who get the shaft because an amulet of mighty fists costs buckets of money and people who are worried about the power level of something that adds to every natural attack a creature has by making it applicable for each iterative attack you make. It still costs more than a weapon does, which I sort of protest given how the restrictions make it arguably less powerful than a magic weapon already, but it's more acceptably only 3000 x bonus^2 instead of 5000 x bonus^2. I'll take it what I can get.
My question is, how does this interact with an amulet of mighty fists? That might explain why this is still more expensive than a magic weapon. If one were to have an amulet of mighty fists with something like flaming or agile on it, something that didn't grant an enhancement bonus, would it still work if you applied the bonuses and abilities from a +1 bodywrap of mighty strikes?
From a cost standpoint, it makes sense that it would. A +1 flaming longsword would be 8000 gp; a flaming amulet of mighty fists and a +1 bodywrap of mighty strikes would cost 8000 gp, and the latter bonus would (for a character with a bab lower than 6) only apply to one attack, plus you'd be spreading the bonuses across two items which takes up a lot of your equipment economy.
Additionally, and I'm guessing I already know the answer to this because it would be just too easy to be true that an item that's good for monks be good for monks, since your BAB is your monk level when you flurry, would this allow you to treat your BAB as your monk level (while flurrying) when it comes to determining how many times you can apply the bonuses from the bodywrap of mighty strikes? I could see that going either way.
As an aside, if you are wondering what on EARTH I'm talking about, check out "Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes" in the body slot wondrous item section of Ultimate Equipment! Thanks for any light anyone can shed on this. :)
aomf does NOT really cost more than weapons. it is 4K, 16K, 36K, 64K and 100K. For a rogue or fighter using two weapon fighting--getting their two weapons to the same is 4k, 16K, 36K, 64K, and 100K
The AoMF did cost more when that post was made.