We had a player leave our Rise of the Runelords for work reasons and now our group is left with only four players. the player leaving was playing a meat-shield type character. So we figured it might be best to shuffle the party a bit and now I will be stepping in at 3rd level with a Paladin.
The GM has some concerns over my characters power and AC both present and future.
We are fairly new to PF so my question is... does he have a legitimate concern or doth he protest too much?
Keep in mind the abilities of the Sacred Shield as he levels.
Sacred Shield Link at d20pfsrd.
He is going to be tougher and tougher to hit but these are for only short spurts.
Str: 15
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 9
Cha: 20
HP: 34
AC: 23 (8 armor, 4 shield)
Fort: 10
Ref: 6
Will: 7
CMB: 5
CMD: 15
Traits
Imperial Soldier: + 1 trait bonus to Intimidate and it becomes a class skill
Shield Bearer: Provide adjacent ally a +2 trait bonus for 1 round once per day
Special Abilities/Features
Immune to Fear
Immunity to Desease
Detect Evil
Aura of Courage
Bastion of Good: - creature smited does half damage to all allies within 10 feet and the Paladin gains a Defection bonus equal to Chr
Exalted Resistance: SR 5+level vs spells with the evil descriptor and spells cast by evil outsiders.
Halo: +2 bonus on intimidate vs evil creatures and on saving throws vs blinded or dazzled
Lay of Hands
Mercy: Sickened
Scion of Humanity:
Truespeaker: +2 bonus on Linguistics and learn two languages each time they gain a rank in linguistics.
Feats
Tower Shield Proficiency
Weapon Focus Scimitar
Equipment
Masterwork half Plate, Masterwork Tower Shield, masterwork scimitar, Amulet of natural Armor +1
Looks fine to me.
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You listed a Shield Bonus but didn't list a shield in equipment? I assume its a Tower Shield. If thats the case then as your GM I laugh and let you make your character because you won't be able to hit things and anything with an Intelligence score of 6+ is going to take one look at you and go "I'm not hitting that I will just walk around".
Long and Short: Nope, not OP.
Rearrange those stats a little to get a decent Dex, take Combat Reflexes and the two Bodyguard feats, and keep your allies close, and this character will become the central hub of the party. Enemies that attack your friends will be forced to resolve attacks against you, and allies will get Evasion when the are behind your shield.
Other than the fact that nothing smart will bother attacking him, he looks fine.
As a tank character you do exactly what you should stand as a bulwark against monsters. a 23 AC is pretty much right where you should be, besides you are still vulnerable to shield sunders, area attacks, flanking, monsters that do aura type damage, grappling, etc...
Your really good at absorbing hits, that's what you are designed for. If your DM wants to get frustrated run a Synthesist Summoner some time, don't even get me started.
*Updated. Thanks Ossain, I forgot to list that.
I hope to add some spells and feats later that will compel foes to attack me rather than my companions.
My first question is how are u generating your scores? Because i count a 27 point buy with u dumping wisdom. I'll assume its rolls, but if its 25 and u miscounted i would do it more like.
str-16
dex-10
con-14
int-10
wis-12
cha-18
More well rounded, but thats just me..
Additionally, if u want make a dm fearing paladin it should be more along the lines of a 2hander Oath of Vengence build.
Feats:
1st-power attack
3rd-blood of angels(to set up flight later on, which is op as hell for a pally)
+1 Falchion or whatever 2hander u like
heaviest armor u can afford
With said weapon at 3rd level while smiting/power attacking
+10 2d4+11 18/20x2, not to bad
saves:
fort+9
reflex+5
will+8
ac: 18/22smiting
feat continuation i would look at:
angel wings(at level u can get them)
furious focus
greater mercy
extra loh
Without using the broken ass antagonize feat the best way to get "aggro" on monsters is to hit them harder than anyone else. This becomes the major reason to play said 2hander paladin. Also keep in mind as u get better armor,amulets etc and higer charisma your ac will still be quite good and ur damage output will leave a tank build in the dirt..
It is a 20 point build with the racial alt trait that gives you an additional 2 to Charisma. It was made in Hero labs. Hmmm, it's not in the AR guide. Maybe Hero labs is borked?
Ugh, hate the term "aggro" but I get the point.
I was thinking of getting improved critical. With a Scimitar that has you critting fairly often and hopefully doing enough damage to keep a foes attention. That and trash talking the GM. :D
Hmmm, paladin tank, huh?
*bursts into laughter*
Oh lawdy, he is OP alright. As in Obscenely Passable.
There was a vanilla fighter in my Kingmaker game that had better AC, better to hit, and better damage than the paladin. When the paladin smote. The entire AP consisted of "need 20 to hit", and him taking anything down in 1 full attack action. And he was not overly OP by the standards of our table.
It is a 20 point build with the racial alt trait that gives you an additional 2 to Charisma. It was made in Hero labs. Hmmm, it's not in the AR guide. Maybe Hero labs is borked?
Hero Labs is borked. That's a human alternate racial trait. I've noted similar mistakes over the past couple of months in various character created using the software.
The character's not OP. If anything, you've made choices that will hurt your ability to be effective in combat dramatically. You will be unable to lay on hands without dropping or sheathing your weapon first, for example, making the ability largely inaccessible during combat. And that's only one issue that the build faces.
Improved critical works with falchion or naginata for the same threat range as the scimitar.
The extra change is a blood of fiends thing it replaces daylight. If I were your dm I would say no to that. That said tell your dm at higher levels the monsters in the ap will have scary chances to hit for slot of damage.
Basically your AC if your standing in melee with them will be the difference between getting mauled vs badly beaten if they get a full attack.
Other than the in needed extra change bonus your char is fine.
What level is he?
Maybe Hero labs allowed the +2 Chr because of Scion of Humanity
Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
I don't know, but that can be fixed easy enough.
I'm not trying to build a statistical perfect Paladin. The goal is to make a character that is fun to play both in and out of combat.
Role play, not roll play.
I do appreciate the great suggestions from everyone.
-M
PS: He's 3rd level
Your standing ac is fine, your smiting AC can cause some troubles. However this is ROtRL we're talking about, there is plenty of casters and a foe at level 6~ish that will put you to the test, so don't worry. As a guideline good AC is usually 20 + hitdice
And just for clarification that additional +2 to Chr was an alternative racial trait from the module Blood of Angels.
....had to dig to find it.
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IMHO, AC becomes a suckers game after a while, because you can have AC's in the high 40s and mobs can still hit you pretty easily by the time you accrue that AC.
I don't think that for martial characters that it is something that you can just sack entirely, but I think at some point you are going to want to look to things like Ring of Friend Shield and DR to reduce damage.
It's also important to watch your CMD; even an AC 100 isn't going to help you if you get bull rushed off a mountain cliff, or in case of a character belonging to a friend I know, a river of molten gold.
He had an AC of 42. A dragon literally backhanded him into the gold with ease; it only needed to roll a 12 or better. The character sunk to the bottom and died very quickly.
The angel alternate of the aasimar allows a +2 to STR and +2 Cha as well as changing your spelllike ability that you get once per day. It is in the Blood of Angels and I believe Hero Lab added it if you have that package as an alternate.
That race and bloodline made me want to try one as a paladin too. STR/CHA both +2 and then you have the whole RP Grampa was an Angel thing. Good stuff. ;)
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If your goal is to defend the party, you need a way to prevent monsters from injuring them. Sacred Shield is a good start, but if you're going to go the super-defensive route, you need to pick up the Bodyguard feat, which requires combat reflexes, which requires that you have a decent Dexterity score.
If you're going 25 point buy as an Aasimar, I'd like at something like:
Str: 16 (+2 Racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 16 (+2 Racial)
At this point, consider taking Thazar's suggestion that allows +2 Str. and +2 Cha. This will enable you to have decent starting Strength and Charisma (likely 16s in both, plenty for a Paladin), good Dexterity for Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard, higher base secondary stats to help match the saving throws, and Int 13 qualifies you for the great Unsanctioned Knowledge feat at level 5, allowing you to add several Bard spells to your spell list, which can help your party defending potential immensely by robbing monsters of actions or further improving your allies' defenses.
You'll wanna ditch the Tower Shield (that -2 to attack rolls HURTS, way more than that extra +2 above a heavy shield will help) for a Heavy Shield, which at level 3 will probably get your AC up around 20, 21 if you keep the amulet of natural armor (I'd drop it for +1 breastplate, personally. Saves you 1k gold for other stuff, like a +1 Shield, for a total AC of 23, the same as your bonus without the attack penalty or slow movement).
This gives you more feat options, and now that the tower shield is gone, you don't need weapon focus: scimitar. I'd recommend grabbing Combat Reflexes (an essential aspect of your defensive character), and possibly Power Attack for when you absolutely NEED to do damage (like when smiting).
Your Constitution doesn't need to be too high, thanks to Lay on Hands. Your saves are nice and well-rounded, and you're even decent with a ranged weapon if you need to be. You can do decent damage with power attack, and for the time being I'd probably rely on a Longsword rather than scimitar (that point of damage still makes a difference at this level). Once you get access to a keen weapon or Improved Critical, then consider making the switch to Scimitar.
Taking the above suggestions, you'd be at:
HP: 31
AC: 23 (7 armor, 2 Dex, 3 shield)
Fort: 7
Ref: 6
Will: 8
Longsword +6 (1d8+3, 19-20/x2)
Power Attack +5 (1d8+5, 19-20/x2)
OR
no shield Longsword +6 (1d8+4, 19-20/x2)
no shield Power Attack +5 (1d8+7, 19-20/x2)
So you've got on par defenses (save fort, which is a little lower), are more accurate, deal more damage, and have greater versatility and party utility.
Thanks Davor I appreciate your help and those are great suggestions.
The -2 to attack with the tower shield might be a dealbreaker. That is too high a tax on a feat. That is too bad because I like the visual of a tower shiled.
-Kit