Monks are very MAD (They need lots of high stats to be good). Some of the archetypes help this problem somewhat like the Zen Archer and Sohei.
Some of monks abilities are focused on movement and some are based on standing in one spot doing full attacks. They don't work together nicely.
Monk weapons kinda suck and the cost to improve natural attacks is stupid high.
I think that pretty much sums it up.
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With the ability of Aasimars to make their attacks bypass silver and cold iron for three feats... are they now good?
Specifically what was bad about monks compared to other things?
The monk isn't a bad class, it just takes a bit of strategic planning and a generous ability score array to make it work the way it's supposed to.
Basically, you need to prioritize your ability scores in the following way: Str>Con>Wis>Dex>Int>Cha. Swap Con and Wis if you plan on specializing in feats like Stunning Fist or Scorpion Style.
You can't run in and beat face like a fighter or a barbarian. You don't have the AC and you certainly don't have the hit points for that. So you have to play more like a rogue, optimizing your Acrobatics to move through squares without provoking, get into good flanking spots to set up your Flurry, and taking feats like Crane Wing in order to protect yourself without fail instead of leaving yourself open with your bad AC.
Now, what you've mentioned is another point. DR is problem, but it's not the only problem. And you only have two types of DR covered. The monk itself can overcome DR/Magic, DR/Lawful and DR/Adamantine. Adding in Silver and Cold Iron can help, but...you still have DR/Piercing and DR/Slashing, as well as DR/Epic, DR/-, DR/Good, DR/Chaotic, and DR/Evil.
And really, spending three feats in order to overcome two types of DR is nice, but it's a waste of feats the monk otherwise needs in order to be effective. The monk thrives on feats because he doesn't really have any active class features. Even his active class features are feats! (Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, Scorpion Style, Medusa Fist, Gorgon Fist).
The monk has issues with damage (solved with high Str and Dragon Ferocity), accuracy (suck it up and buy an amulet of mighty fists), AC (nothing you can do here, just don't get hit), and mediocre hit points. The monk's high points are strong mobility and good saves, and these both require absolutely no attention on your part, you have already optimized them both by going monk.
The best race for a monk, in my opinion, is a dwarf. Bonus to two important scores, penalty to a dump score, and bonuses to saves against spells that stacks with Still Mind is very nice.
Actually AC is the one area you mentioned that a monk isn't really gonna fall to far down the pipe. Early on yes he won't be as hard to hit as a fighter in heavy armor or a super dex rogue in light. But as you progress your twin stat increase to AC from items combined with your ability to still use bracers of armor and the same rings as everyone else can quickly shift the numbers into your favor.
Everything else is fairly well on point.
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The MAD, combined with difficulties dealing with DR, poor AC, and lack of full BAB, make it hard to pull off.
For a Aasamir Monk, multiclassing into Barbarian is a good option.
This is done easier with the new trait:
Enlightened Warrior: You have always found it easy to
maintain inner peace and enlightenment that translate
well to the battlefield. You may take levels in monk even
while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment.
An Agile or Guided AoMF helps with MAD.
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Tiefling's pretty cool like that, especially with the Scaled Skin trait to get a +1 Natural Armor boost and only a single resistance. Helps with the early AC issues that much more.
Oni Tieflings have a lot of potential (+2 Str & Wis, -2 Cha) and Alter Self 1/day to give yourself another +2 Str boost (or to look like another race for disguising), not to mention the more Eastern flavor of the bloodline. Qlippoth Tieflings are similarly statted (+2 Str & Wis, -2 Int), and offer Blur as a 1/day SLA for a minor defensive boost.
Garuda Aasimar's work well for agile monks (+2 Dex & Wis) and boost to Acrobatics.
And BBT, that trait there is pretty awesome; doing a 1/2 orc Urban Barbarian/Martial Artist just so I can have a raging monk, but that'd allow it just the same!
I'm planning on making the "heavenly fist" aasimar in addition to my loremaster and just not sure what I need to be aware of getting into this. In the games I've run, the only areas I've seen the monk have issues with was usually against DR monsters.
As I stated, having the ability to pierce two additional types of DR won't really help you too much. The ability to pierce cold iron and silver will help you punch lycanthropes, devils, demons, vampires and fey. It won't help you against skeletons, zombies, rakshasas, angels, swarms, elementals, oozes, creatures who can fly, anyone affected by stoneskin (until you're a sufficiently high level), or etc.
The MAD, combined with difficulties dealing with DR, poor AC, and lack of full BAB, make it hard to pull off.
For a Aasamir Monk, multiclassing into Barbarian is a good option.
This is done easier with the new trait:
An Agile or Guided AoMF helps with MAD.
Enlightened Warrior: You have always found it easy to
maintain inner peace and enlightenment that translate
well to the battlefield. You may take levels in monk even
while maintaining a neutral or neutral good alignment.
this interests me, but how exactly can a chaotic barbarian still work for the multiclassing with the monk?
I already noticed how well a Serene Barbarian / Monk concept would synergy (it basically shouts this should be done), but I didn't find any method other than houserules to get this working.
Barb is non-lawful doesn't have to be chaotic.
wow, okay, my bad then, yay there is a way now :)
Serene barbarian "rage" helps with AC, never really believed that class to be useful if it isn't combined with monk, but I do love its fluff/concept
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Serene barbarian is 3rd party. May not be allowed.
If dex focused, Reduce Person is a pump for you.
Also, you more or less, lose nothing from the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, and now have the option of taking human only feats, including Racial Heritage, which can be used to amazing things.
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this is a bit of a feat starved thing anyhow though, but so far I've seen only a loss of reduce/enlarge person and that's about it?
I'm thinking though a ubran/invulnerable barbarian with some monk in him would be pretty cool concept for "god fist" or heavenly fist. Focuses and grants himself str/dex/con as he wants and then goes to town ala fist of the north star.
building to decrease mad makes the most sense to me. Building a dex based monk also seems more thematically appropriate than a hulking bruiser.
building to decrease mad makes the most sense to me. Building a dex based monk also seems more thematically appropriate than a hulking bruiser.
if so, and you have no issues concerning 3rd party classes, consider the Serene Barbarian, it doesn't rage, it basically "meditates", and the bonus goes to Dex and Wis instead of Str and Con, plus you can still get rage powers but they are called differently that's all, good flavor
for me that makes just more sense for a monk/barbarian concept, finesse works with it better too
Or for non 3pp go urban barbarian and simply choose dex when you rage.
building to decrease mad makes the most sense to me. Building a dex based monk also seems more thematically appropriate than a hulking bruiser.
Depends on your definition of "monk". My personal definition of the term is a scholar who lives with a group of like-minded individuals scribing and translating religious texts, as was the way monks were in Medieval Europe.
That said, the class does nothing for that, so I look at what it does offer, which is a bunch of semi-psionic ki powers and the ability to smash face with your bare hands, and I determine that Strength and Wisdom are the most appropriate scores to focus on.
Or for non 3pp go urban barbarian and simply choose dex when you rage.
may not fit the concept, and Serene Barbarian can stack Archetypes better
as example, a Savage Serene Barbarian combined with Monk would build well upon an unarmored martial artist trained warrior concept, but it could also be a Mounted Fury at the same time
the problems with monks
multiple attribute dependancy, focus primarily on strength and wisdom, you want a passable dexterity and constitution.
difficulty enhancing thier primary weapon. use a magic gauntlet already, it's legal by RAW. a gauntlet counts as a bloody unarmed strike for all intents and purposes. or play one of the two archery focused archtypes
accuracy issues. magic gauntlet, or play one of the two archery focused archtypes
bypassing damage reduction. use magic gauntlets, or an archery focused archtype with special DR bypassing arrows
overdependance on Ki. this is not meant to be spammed willy nilly. take the quinggong archtype and take a buff power and don't use the extra attack.
skr?
skr?
Sean K. Reynolds. He's one of the more vocal developers from Paizo. He answers our questions that lead to the FAQs and errata.
so, leather gloves or something like that can't be enchanted to be used with unarmed attacks?
it would make sense, but I guess it isn't by rules then?
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so, leather gloves or something like that can't be enchanted to be used with unarmed attacks?
it would make sense, but I guess it isn't by rules then?
No, not by RAW.
Also, unarmed strikes are not just punches. In fact, you do not even need arms or legs to make them.
Unless it is some kind of "body glove", it does not make sense.
so clothes then? like an overall?
so looking over things I see people using their bonus monk feats for styles such as dragon style out of the ultimate combat book, where is it listed/stated that you the monk bonus feat list gets expanded?
That would be the Master of Many Styles archetype from Ultimate Combat. However, the Master of Many Styles loses the Flurry of Blows class feature, it might not be something you want to take.
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ah gotcha, thought so but some people didn't specify they were using that and put it in their builds. also, a link to somewhere my work filter doesn't like why not just link to say like this
so clothes then? like an overall?More like the Venom Symbiote.
Which would be awesome by the way.
but that is a creature, so not enchantable o.O
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So I got to thinking
str 15
dex 16
con 14
int 10
wis 16
cha 7
enlightened warrior, Neutral Good
lvl 1 Urban Barbarian (feat angelic blood)
lvl 2 urban barbarian
lvl 3-6 monk. (feats dragon style, dodge, deflect arrows, dragon ferocity)
at lvl 6, you'd have an ac of 18 without bracers or anything.
and you could do the urban rage 8 rounds for a +4 to str/dex/con.
So you could up your ac or your to hit and damage when you needed to.