Witch spells to use with rime spell

[Umbranus]

I play a with who just turned level 7.
Now I'm thinking about giving her the rime spell metamagic feat.
She is of the scarred witch doctor archetype, so she has decent hp (I think the highest in our party) and thus can survive a turn in meele sometimes.

What witch spells would rime spell work with?

I'm thinking about frost fall and ice storm (which I could perhaps get magical lineage with) and perhaps frost bite.

But what about icicle dagger? Would that work or is the point of cold damage the conjured dagger deals not damage dealt by the spell?

Any other spell of up to 4th level I did miss?

I know that dealing damage should not be the main concern of a with but as we don't have a wizard, sorc or magus I don't think it is too much of a waste to cast a blast spell sometimes. More so if it debuffs the enemy as well (as rime spell does).

[Ascalaphus]

Wall of Ice? Anyone who cuts through and passes through the gap takes damage, triggering Rime.

But yeah, all in all there's annoyingly few Rime-worthy low-level spells.

[Umbranus]

Wall of ice is not on the witch list.

On some other thought:
Rime spell states that it only affects spells with the cold descriptor. It doesn't say that I can't apply it to some other spell.

Could I memorize a rime burning hands and then cast it using a lesser metamagic rod of elemental spell to change it to cold?

[Lightbulb]

Elemental Spell (Metamagic)

You can manipulate the elemental nature of your spells.

Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell's normal damage with that energy type or split the spell's damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type. An elemental spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type."

---

Rime Spell (Metamagic)

Creatures damaged by your spells with the cold descriptor become entangled.

Benefit: The frost of your cold spell clings to the target, impeding it for a short time. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.

This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor. A rime spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

I thought it would work but looking at the actual text it says "spells with the cold descriptor" not "deals cold elemental damage". The Elemental Spell metamagic only changes the damage type it does not add the "cold" descriptor.

RAW I don't think it works. Check with your DM.

[Umbranus]

Hmm.. I was sure elemental spell would change the spell descriptor like the bloodline arcana do.

[Umbranus]

So what about icicle dagger, would it work with rime spell?
Or is the cold damage dealt by the dagger not damage dealt by the spell?

[Some Random Dood]

Lightbulb wrote:

I thought it would work but looking at the actual text it says "spells with the cold descriptor" not "deals cold elemental damage". The Elemental Spell metamagic only changes the damage type it does not add the "cold" descriptor.

RAW I don't think it works. Check with your DM.

I'm going to disagree with you, and here is why. First, lets think about what having the cold descriptor means.

Spells with the cold descriptor include those that create ice, sleet, or snow out of nothing. They can cause frostbite, numbness, coordination problems, slowed movement and reactions, stupor, death and finally, they cause cold damage.

So if a spell causes cold damage, isn't that the same thing as having the cold descriptor? I can not see any difference between a spell that has the cold descriptor and a spell that does cold damage, because they are the same thing.

Umbranus wrote:

So what about icicle dagger, would it work with rime spell?

Or is the cold damage dealt by the dagger not damage dealt by the spell?

The dagger is created by a spell with the cold descriptor. So as long as the cold damage is not negated or resisted (meaning that they take the cold damage), I would say that it should work. But since it's only a 1st lv spell, they would only be entangled for 1 round unless you used heighten spell on icicle dagger.

[Lightbulb]

Some Random Dood wrote:

So if a spell causes cold damage, isn't that the same thing as having the cold descriptor? I can not see any difference between a spell that has the cold descriptor and a spell that does cold damage, because they are the same thing.

Where does it say that? It doesn't. Thus not RAW. RAI - possibly, hence speak to your DM.

I would probably allow it.

D&D has terrible rules it really does...

[Valrydus]

Well it isn't a pathfinder spell, but I've been having tremendous fun with "Kelgar's Grave Mist" from the player's handbook II.

Area of effect spell that causes all enemies to take 1D6 cold dog per round and then save for fatigue.

Having a whole room full of fatigued and entangled enemies makes my arcane trickster laugh.

obviously this is up to DM discretion, and since you are a witch i have no idea how to even suggest getting your DM to sign on (though dark chocolate works for ours)

[Phasics]

Admixture wizard specialist sub school changes the spell descriptor to e.g. cold

Sorcerer elemental bloodline can do the same

doesn't help your witch sorry