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Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
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Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
At Paizocon I saw a very effective use of predrawn maps with covers attached with post-it glue. The GM revealed a little of the map at a time, but it was predrawn (actually preprinted on a plotter) eliminating the time sink and letting us run on beautiful maps.
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Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
I really liked what the GM did tonight.
He had separate print outs of each room. When we got to a room, he put down that particular room (taping it to the table). By the end of the evening the entire map was there on the table.
Admittedly:
1) This took up a lot of table space. Worked at that location, wouldn't work everywhere
2) The GM did a lot of prep work to do this. Above and beyond what a GM can be expected to do.
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At Paizocon I saw a very effective use of predrawn maps with covers attached with post-it glue. The GM revealed a little of the map at a time, but it was predrawn (actually preprinted on a plotter) eliminating the time sink and letting us run on beautiful maps.Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
I've done this, but usually just using scotch tape to put a piece of paper over sections of the pre-drawn map, so they can be quickly removed.
I prefer pre-drawing mostly because I suck at drawing. So I spend time erasing and redrawing things to get it right when I draw the maps in advance. Or I sometimes copy and paste the maps from the scenario into into a photo editor, blow them up, and print sections of them at a time, so I don't have to actually draw anything.
Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
I really liked what the GM did tonight.
He had separate print outs of each room. When we got to a room, he put down that particular room (taping it to the table). By the end of the evening the entire map was there on the table.
Admittedly:
1) This took up a lot of table space. Worked at that location, wouldn't work everywhere
2) The GM did a lot of prep work to do this. Above and beyond what a GM can be expected to do.
I do this and it works really well. I don't bother taping anything down because I pull rooms off the table as I place new ones down; this helps with the table space issue and forces players to rely on their own memory of the dungeon. I also keep the detail to a minimum, just the basics are needed.
Flip maps are cool, they're very detailed and immersive, but as a player I just hate it when I can see the whole dungeon and my sense of mystery is dissolved.
If the encounter locations are few and simple I prefer to draw them out on the fly.
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Pre-draw or print. Saves time during the game and you can focus on running a fun game, not drawing a picture. I use flip mat and map packs if I can, then rely on my other map collection and tiles, print out the map if it makes sense, or simply draw it the day before on the battlemat. I use construction paper to cover up the stuff players should not see.
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I usually don't have time to pre-draw, so I wind up using a basic flip-map or my tact-tiles with a dry erase marker.
I have been known to blow up the maps and print them in sections.
This has me thinking if going back to drawing maps on the big flip-charts, though.
Basically, whatever works best for you. Don't be afraid to experiment and try different methods.
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I tend to like colorful maps .. and I also like to try and plot things out
so I'm a fan of pre-draw -- I have easil pads of graph paper that I draw, outline and color... I've taken to packing blank typing paper with me so that I can cover up parts of the map that they haven't gotten to yet to help keep the suspense ... because fog o' war is teh awesome!!!!!!!!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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For a while, my only map was a vinyl battle mat, so I drew each map as we got to it because I didn't have much other option. However, I've recently acquired a couple of flip-mats which have a blank grid on the back. So what I'll be trying this weekend is pre-drawing maps on the backs of those and on my vinyl mat (one map each) and using those.
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I usually try to pre-draw (or use a Flip-Mat if I have the right one, or something close to it), especially if I know time may be tight for the game.
I have several blank flip-mats, and have also used Gaming Paper for pre-drawing. For the occasional map that is used for several encounters (and should be revealed a bit at a time), I'll use flipped-over Map Pack tiles (which are white on the backside) to cover the not-yet-discovered areas, and reveal them as needed.
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Do you prefer drawing the maps in advance, or drawing them at the table (at least the scenarios that don't have nifty flip mats to go along with them)
Drawing maps in advance saves time, but you lose element of surprise sometimes in the more dungeon crawl based adventures. While drawing as you go is vise-versa. (More Surprise element , more time players sitting around table doing nothing)
Which way is recommended?
I really liked what the GM did tonight.
He had separate print outs of each room. When we got to a room, he put down that particular room (taping it to the table). By the end of the evening the entire map was there on the table.
Admittedly:
1) This took up a lot of table space. Worked at that location, wouldn't work everywhere
2) The GM did a lot of prep work to do this. Above and beyond what a GM can be expected to do.
Did this the last time I GMd. It was very smooth, in that it (1)maintained the element of surprise re: what does the rest of the lair look like, and (2) quicker and more visual appealing than hand drawn on the fly.
If you AREdoing it room by room, you could get by with 8.5x11 pages of 1 inch graph paper. Most average rooms do not exceed that size, so it will avoid a lot of the waste of cutting out from a easel pad. Also easier to throw it in your GM kit than a 2'x3' easel pad. And if you need to connect a couple papers for the occasional arena, you can either connect smaller pieces or pull out the battle mat.
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I really liked what the GM did tonight.
He had separate print outs of each room. When we got to a room, he put down that particular room (taping it to the table). By the end of the evening the entire map was there on the table.
Admittedly:
1) This took up a lot of table space. Worked at that location, wouldn't work everywhere
2) The GM did a lot of prep work to do this. Above and beyond what a GM can be expected to do.I do this and it works really well. I don't bother taping anything down because I pull rooms off the table as I place new ones down; this helps with the table space issue and forces players to rely on their own memory of the dungeon. I also keep the detail to a minimum, just the basics are needed.
Flip maps are cool, they're very detailed and immersive, but as a player I just hate it when I can see the whole dungeon and my sense of mystery is dissolved.
If the encounter locations are few and simple I prefer to draw them out on the fly.
I prefer to draw them out in advance as much as possible.
For small areas that don't require hiding anything (like wilderness encounters) I will draw them out on flip-mats.
For dungeons and places where the PCs explore areas bit by bit, I prefer to use Gaming Paper Singles. Like the GM that paul mentioned, I can draw rooms out on single sheets so that I can lay the next sheet on top of the previous and have them line up.
Did this the last time I GMd. It was very smooth, in that it (1)maintained the element of surprise re: what does the rest of the lair look like, and (2) quicker and more visual appealing than hand drawn on the fly.
If you AREdoing it room by room, you could get by with 8.5x11 pages of 1 inch graph paper. Most average rooms do not exceed that size, so it will avoid a lot of the waste of cutting out from a easel pad. Also easier to throw it in your GM kit than a 2'x3' easel pad. And if you need to connect a couple papers for the occasional arena, you can either connect smaller pieces or pull out the battle mat.
I highly recommend the Gaming Paper products I've linked here. You can slip the sheets into a document protector for the next time you run that scenario. The sheets I photographed are from my Shackled City game two years ago.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Predrawn is almost always better because it keeps things moving. If you want to be super sneaky, you predraw the dungeon without any secret doors and you keep hidden rooms or sections on a separate sheet of paper. Those gaming paper singles look perfect.
Unfortunately, I must admit to being terrible at prepping in advance so in spite of the fact that I know it's better to have stuff predrawn... I often draw on the fly.
Contributor
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pfft, who needs maps.
I just mentally connect with all my players and tell the story using my visual imagination in my head. Though there is an echoing problem I have not figured out how to get rid of yet... ;)
The first few years I played RPGs we didn't have maps or minis - we used our imaginations for stuff in combat...true this was a time before there was flanking or AoO, but still.
A little part of me still misses that.
Predrawn is almost always better because it keeps things moving. If you want to be super sneaky, you predraw the dungeon without any secret doors and you keep hidden rooms or sections on a separate sheet of paper. Those gaming paper singles look perfect.
Unfortunately, I must admit to being terrible at prepping in advance so in spite of the fact that I know it's better to have stuff predrawn... I often draw on the fly.
It should be said that predrawing only works if you have time to prepare. Without time to prepare your options are drawing on the fly, using generic flipmats etc., or going mapless.
Drawing on the fly preserves the fog of war effect but is slow. Generic flipmats etc. are faster but sometimes details on the maps don't match the encounter. Going mapless is great (I miss it too) but runs into problems with a system that assumes actions on a grid. Going mapless has the advantage of evoking a deeper, more descriptive experience because, in my opinion, maps (predrawn or otherwise) tend to promote narrative laziness among GMs, myself included.
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Mike - You are 100% correct. If I had to choose, and I never do, then I would go with know the scenario first. I am way to OCD to not be 100% prepared so once I sign up to GM, I print the scenario, I read the scenario, then I prep my mini's, the I re-read the scenario, then I create my maps and props, then I read up on any of the spells/powers/bad guys that I don't understand, then I finish by re-re-reading the scenario.
Assuming you are well versed in the scenario - Pre-draw your maps.
I take advantage of my maps collection whenever I can to save time if I can. Otherwise - gaming paper, 1" grid flip charts, or a simple battlemat works fine for me. In a few cases I will print out the map from the scenario, but that is ink intensive and costly.
When prep time is short I find it is better to skimp on the maps and spend more time on learning the scenario's ins and outs. I've also seen this with other folks. Not knowing what is going on with the story can slow the game down much more than waiting for a map to be drawn.
Yeah, if it's a choice between reading the scenario through and prepping the maps, by all means read the scenario, just so you know what you're talking about. If on the other hand you have the time pre-draw encounter maps, do so for each and ever encounter your group could have. Then cry yourself to sleep on a bed of unused encounter maps, just cause they didn't open (or even find) all those secret doors.
Edit: What Dave the Barbarian said.
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I strongly prefer using pre-drawn maps (using cheap flip chart paper), printed maps (b/w), and flip maps.
For rooms the PCs haven’t discovered, you just use blank pieces of paper to cover the rooms. Remove/move the paper when they enter the room. There is plenty of mystery, assuming you’re actually covering the room.
For secret doors, you have separate piece of map that you overlay over the main map.
I like it for all of the reasons people have already listed.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I almost always predraw the maps. I'm one of them that has the 1" grid easel pads and they're quite useful. Mine are 27"x33.5" and can fit most maps (Except large ones like the henge maze, the Olpara theater, and the Azlant Ridge camp.) But then its easy enough to tape two of them together and then it works
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I pre-draw as well. It may not be common in some areas, as at Paizocon, I had people shocked when I rolled out the pre-drawn maps I had. I agree with those that say it helps keep the game going. I've not seen the Post-it glue. I'll have to look for that, as now I just use lots of paper to cover up the big maps they haven't seen.
I am a big pre-draw fan. I do everything on a big easel pad with the 1" grids on them, or go into the PDF, crop it and "print to tiles".
One of the /best/ ideas I've seen has been to take a map, print to tiles on 8.5x11 (or hand draw on smaller grid papers), laminate, cut each room out like a puzzle, add velcro to the back and post it on a big foamboard.
My wife did this for her preschool students with a map of the United States, and I realized that I could do it with a dungeon map just as easily... You add a "piece" to the overall foamboard map and it preserves the fog of war effect and still gives you a neat, orderly map that is predrawn, can be marked up with wet erase, and stores more easily.
The downside is that you need lots of poster/foamboard, a laminator (or self stick laminating pouches) and velcro..
I will try it over the next week and hopefully post some pictures to explain it better.
Wouldn't do it for one-shot adventures, but for the ones you run a lot of, especially ones with BIG dungeons that are explored room by room (as opposed to multiple small maps), would definitely be worthwhile.
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I almost always pre-draw my maps, although I rarely actually draw them. Most of the time, I make custom maps in Dundjinni. It takes a bit longer, but the results are fantastic! It's part of my prepping routine: I read the scenario, then make the maps, which helps me to lock in what happens where, and how the terrain could affect the various encounters.
For larger, more open maps, I usually use paper for fog of war. if a map is more contained (like a house, or some dungeons), I will frequently print each room separately and lay them out as needed.
I'm also a big fan of 3D terrain. Many people are very visual thinkers, and having an accurate representation of exactly how tall a structure is helps a lot. (I'm currently beginning a full scale model of the map for 3-26: Portal of the Sacred Rune - if it works it should be epic!)
Here is the Post-it glue stick, which is awesome for keeping your fog of war papers in place until you remove them. I've also used it to cover a secret door with a blank wall until it is discovered.
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Well I think every scenario presents a different oppurtunity.
For instance small tunnel. I print out a custom tile from my PC. No need for a map when a tile can be used.
For a flip mat encounter. I tend to use the flip maps.
For a Large underground dungeon, or custom encounter I pre-draw the map. Covering up unexplored places with yet to be presented chronicle sheets, face down.
For an unexplored map I will either use an existing map or try to find a unique prop fitting of the scenario. For instance in the Immortal Conundrum I used a clue board. It was old but I thought very fitting for the scenario. Players loved it.
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I remember when maps were for the GM only if there were any at all, and the players didn't even have miniatures. if a combat needed a reference for scale, it was rocks, beads, etc. and a kitchen table array of set pieces like a knife-river or a salt-shaker-dragon... sometimes i miss those days. if you're descriptive enough with words, you don't need to prep maps, if you need the scale for combat a quick draw when needed is enough. the lack of detail also makes the players use that perception skill, which in my opinion is wrongfully neglected during most combat scenes.
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I remember when maps were for the GM only if there were any at all, and the players didn't even have miniatures. if a combat needed a reference for scale, it was rocks, beads, etc. and a kitchen table array of set pieces like a knife-river or a salt-shaker-dragon... sometimes i miss those days. if you're descriptive enough with words, you don't need to prep maps, if you need the scale for combat a quick draw when needed is enough. the lack of detail also makes the players use that perception skill, which in my opinion is wrongfully neglected during most combat scenes.
yes yes yes... and you walked uphill to the dungeon both ways in the snow in July.... :)
Pre-drawn can work. You can also use partially predrawn maps. Don't draw in any secret doors, and don't fill in the details of a room such as tables or chest. The players have no way to know if the room is empty or not.
I remember when maps were for the GM only if there were any at all, and the players didn't even have miniatures. if a combat needed a reference for scale, it was rocks, beads, etc. and a kitchen table array of set pieces like a knife-river or a salt-shaker-dragon... sometimes i miss those days. if you're descriptive enough with words, you don't need to prep maps, if you need the scale for combat a quick draw when needed is enough. the lack of detail also makes the players use that perception skill, which in my opinion is wrongfully neglected during most combat scenes.
Some people like myself don't describe things all that well, and some people just can't match a mental image to what is said.
Players should be rolling perception anyway. Missing that secret door or trap might make things a lot more difficult if they don't.
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(following up Wraithsrike) ... And a lot of times, even players that are paying attention miss details in what the GM says. Whether its room description or plot exposition, I often find myself reminding players (both as GM and as a player) of the details of what was said, ibpve been guilty of missing details myself sometimes.
I used to play with no GM-drawn maps, where he would describe the room or corridor and it was up to the players to map it out based on his descriptions. I really don't miss the pain of dealing with that.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I recently ran We Be Goblins almost mapless. I used the little inside-cover map of the ship to help the players get an idea of how it was set up, but once they got it, we didn't really have to reference the map anymore. So the actual execution of combat was mapless for the whole module.
But that's the only time I've managed to do that.
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I remember when maps were for the GM only if there were any at all, and the players didn't even have miniatures. if a combat needed a reference for scale, it was rocks, beads, etc. and a kitchen table array of set pieces like a knife-river or a salt-shaker-dragon... sometimes i miss those days. if you're descriptive enough with words, you don't need to prep maps, if you need the scale for combat a quick draw when needed is enough. the lack of detail also makes the players use that perception skill, which in my opinion is wrongfully neglected during most combat scenes.
Do you also remember endless questions and arguements about 'what? I wasn't over there!' and 'I didn't mean I was standing under it!' and so on?
And do we really need something to make the Perception skill even MORE mandatory in the minds of players?
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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I've used a number of things, depending on the map, my prep time, the importance of the session, whatever.
Sometime pre-printed with portions covered up (having access to a plotter helps). Sometimes drawing as needed. Sometimes I give my players an item that will map the solid walls of a dungeon for them out to a good range if I'm feeling lazy.
The most advanced I did was using photoshop and putting each room as it's own layer, then turning on the required layer when they entered the room. Sent the thing into the big TV behind me and had 11x17 printouts of rooms for a tactical map.
Simplest thing I've done was when I only cared about the rooms and not the layout or connections between them. Put a tag for each room into a bag, then each time we got to a new room just pulled it out of the bag and ran it. Certain rooms were triggers for me to take sets of rooms out of the bag or add new ones (divided by color of tag).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I use a mix of mapsheets and drawing on the fly.
I do look for scenarios with existing mapsheets though.
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Pre-draw 95% of the time with fog 'o war options.
Sometimes though, certain scenes can be negotiated with no map, especially if PCs might choose an RP option. When the map is out there (at least visible) it points the action towards combat.
For high suspense or 'getting lost' a fully drawn out map takes away from the moment. Haunting of Hinojai is great with no pre-drawn map, only drawing rooms when needed (they are quick draws).
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Examples from my session last Saturday running the Goblinblood Dead.
Second encounter with the worg: no map needed, just RP.
Third encounter in the hobgoblinair: each room drawn out on paper and cut apart to be laid down room by room. Final room was covered by obscuring mist, room not laid out until party had explored the walls. Miniatures were placed on table and description used to note the position of the walls until exploration complete.
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when i say that the perception check goes unused durring combat i mean that the players/characters aren't actively paying attention to anything. they aren't looking to see what the enemy is, subtle hints that may differentiate a skeleton from a zombie etc. and how to deal with each more effectively. they aren't checking to see what weapons their foes wield or the environmental elements that they may turn to their advantage (like checking to see if they could knock over a burning brazier onto a foe). very few attempt to improvise tricks and traps because it's not clearly stated in the rules and are unsure of how to pull off such cinematic events. as a player i am constantly asking to notice such things and how to use them. most of my GM's shut me down before or after the attempt, i'm guessing so they don't have to be creative themselves, but at least i'm playing my character. as a GM myself, i haven't had any players expressing this level of ingenuity/imagination and i blame the battle-map miniature erra for this. the players seem to accept the maps and minis as accurate and are only active in use of perception when searching for loot or new enemies to fight. new players are more apt to experiment and be adventurous than the more established players. i've witnessed newer players being chastised for this imagination instead of being mimicked an it bothers me.
i'm not saying that the maps haven't made combat scenes move faster or alleviated petty squabbles, i just miss the fantasy that not having these things enhanced. many GM's forget about environmental hazards that aren't on the maps and play every encounter without cover, concealment, or varied lighting conditions. when i GM i consider the map as much of an enemy to the players as the monsters.
/end mini-rant
back on topic and tangentially related, it doesn't matter if you draw ahead of time or not as a general rule and it's more dependent on your GMing style and your players preference. do what works for the table!