Well common sense I think says no in the case of armour. It would be like a high schooler west ng his 9 year old brothers clothes but metal.
RAW, I would just go with no. We have rules for weapons, if you were allowed to do so they would have stated out what happened with armor as they did with weapons.
Home game wise, I'd dig into the piece meal armor rules and let them use the arms/legs probably.
Well... Since a medium-sized character can use a medium-sized (light) shield as a (light) one-handed weapon, let's just use the weapon size rules as a base.
If we look at it from the weapon side, a large-sized light shield could be used as a one-handed weapon (from which I would deduce that you can use it with all the drawbacks of using a heavy shield, but still only getting light shield AC), while a large-sized heavy shield would have to be used as a two-handed weapon (which probably makes it unable to use as a shield).
But depending on the circumstances, you could houserule that a large-sized heavy shield can be used by a medium-sized character as a tower shield (again, with all the drawbacks, but only getting heavy shield ac).
A large-sized tower shield could obviously not be used by a medium-sized character, at all.
Regarding armor, I generally wouldn't allow characters to use inappropriately-sized stuff.
For a while, we even used to roll a dice to determine if an appropriately-sized suit of armor fits a character. Obviously, it depends on the type of armor, since some parts are easily adjustable, but when a 2.20m 120kg barbarian hulk tries to put on a breastplate form-fitted to a 1.60m 45kg petite sorceress, I would give that player a gentle nudge with the core rulebook. ;)
I would, however, allow someone to craft a piecemail-armor out of salvaged parts.
Well, going with what we have, the weapon rules, then shields seem alright.
A medium PC wielding a small sized heavy shield, would treat it as a light weapon.What about a medium PC wielding a small sized tower shield?
If we are going to step away from RAW and allow the use, are you incorporating a penalty for attacks or some such similar in vein to the use of weapons? Just because the shield is smaller and might be roughly bucker sized, doesn't mean the straps and handle are sized appropriately. My hands are far from basketball player "huge" but having played with kids and their toys I can definitely say handles and such sized for smaller sizes mean I can get maybe 3 fingers around as opposed to their whole hand. Toss on some gauntlets or gloves even, and you are certainly squeezing in and not having total control of what you have a hold of with those 2-3 fingers. Absolutely not the fine control that the person the item was sized for would have.
|
We are not stepping away from RAW, because there is no RAW.
You cannot be in defiance of something that does not exist.
Moving on.
I am not saying that there would not be penalties of some kind.
With shields, there are the inappropriately sized weapon rules to base something off of.
Thing is, this still leaves a number of unanswered questions.
RAW is silent on the matter.
Oh, right, I only thought about larger shields...
I think I wouldn't allow smaller shields.
First, as has been correctly mentioned, you'd have to adjust grips and handles.
Second, we'd have to make a rule that you'd only get the ac of the adjusted shield size, no prevent characters from getting tower shield ac from a tiny tower shield that they can handle as a buckler or something.
But yeah, since the RAW really is silent about all that... it might be easier to just say "no inappropriately sized armor/shields".
Sometimes, it's thematically relevant to wield something inappropriately sized. A Titan Mauler using a large sized light shield is very thematically correct.
If it is just thematics, why not just reskin a heavy shield into a large light shield?
I would assume that the only reason you would want to wear inappropriately sized armor is because you picked it up as loot.
As far as rules go there is no AC difference between a tower shield built for a halfling and a tower shield built for a giant.
Price/weight are the only real considerations. If you are looting giants then you should be able to make back a decent chunk of change for large armor. Sucks to be a small creature looting medium guys though.
I would say you could never utilize armor that is not your size.
I swear that I read somewhere about treating different size shields as the next type up.
A large light shield becomes a medium heavy shield. A Large heavy shield becomes a medium tower shield. And a large tower shield is a door.
We are not stepping away from RAW, because there is no RAW.
You cannot be in defiance of something that does not exist.
Typically, the rules tell you what you can do, and give mechanics for how that will work.
What the rules aren't is an exauhstive list of every possible thing you can't do.If the rules don't say you can do something, you probably can't.
|
.
.
There is no RAW on this. Just use your brain.
.
.
A large sized buckler weights 40 lbs.
A large sized light steel shield weights 48 lbs.
A medium sized tower shield weights 45 lbs.
These three are similar enough that a GM could say these large shields are all equivalent to a medium tower shield.
A large sized heavy wooden shield weights 80 lbs.
A large sized heavy steel shield weighs 120 lbs.
There is no medium shield or weapon that comes close to these in weight.
Common sense should tell you that these large sized shields are just too heavy to be used by a medium character.
I am sorry, but using inappropriately sized armor is just silly; I am sure this is why it is not given in the book. Large armor is 8 times bigger and heavier than the medium sized equivalent. It is just not effective to be swimming in your armor. The best case would be that a larger set could have pieces removed or altered, but then we would be talking about refitting the armor (essentially rebuilding it into medium armor if enough of the material can be reused).
|
We are not stepping away from RAW, because there is no RAW.
You cannot be in defiance of something that does not exist.
Typically, the rules tell you what you can do, and give mechanics for how that will work.
What the rules aren't is an exauhstive list of every possible thing you can't do.If the rules don't say you can do something, you probably can't.
Ridiculous.
The rules do not state that your character can breath air.
We are not stepping away from RAW, because there is no RAW.
You cannot be in defiance of something that does not exist.
Typically, the rules tell you what you can do, and give mechanics for how that will work.
What the rules aren't is an exauhstive list of every possible thing you can't do.If the rules don't say you can do something, you probably can't.
Ridiculous.
The rules do not state that your character can breath air.
What makes you think your character can breathe air?
|
|
I would allow the characters to wear the armor that is not sized or fitted for them but I would treat them as not having "Armor Proficiency" with that armor....
Normal: A character who is wearing armor with which
he is not prof icient applies its armor check penalty to
attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving
as for shields...I would assume that shield is either one size larger or smaller then it would be...example large buckler could be used as light shield and small tower shield could be used as large shield but once again they would be proficient with it...
Normal: When you are using a shield with which you are
not prof icient, you take the shield’s armor check penalty
on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving
SO if the character is in terrible trouble and just trying to defend them self this would help....but for every day use it would not make much sense.
|
|
For what can, and cannot be utilized, as far as shields go, the rules for weapons seem sufficient.
The thing is, what happens when the halfling climbs inside a suite of dwarven plate?
What rules do I reference for this occurrence?
What bonuses/penalties apply?
By the way, the "don't be stupid" and "do you not have any common sense" comments, are just mean, and unneeded.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ridiculous.
The rules do not state that your character can breath air.
They do state that your character breathes, though:
Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.
For the actual question here, though; the only thing the rules have to say regarding armor that isn't made for you is under Full Plate Armor:
Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.
It also says:
Weight: This column gives the weight of the armor sized for a Medium wearer. Armor fitted for Small characters weighs half as much, and armor for Large characters weighs twice as much.
So, I'd say armor simply can't be worn if it was made for a different size category than your own. It wouldn't make sense, to me, if someone wore a suit of metal armor made for someone twice their size. I would probably allow someone to use inappropriately-sized leather or hide armor if they took some time to adjust the straps, but with the nonproficiency penalties.
However, most armors can be worn if they're made for creatures of the same size as your own, unless they're full plate, in which they must be refitted appropriately.
Inappropriately-sized shields would also fall under nonproficiency, in my eyes. Except tower shields, which would simply be too unwieldy if they were made for a larger creature than you.
Okay, BBT, without all those...
Really, try wearing clothes (better take armor or sports protective gear if you can get a hold on something) made for someone who's half or double your size.
True, in the case of halfing and dwarf, the size difference isn't that huge, but the weight/body shape difference is still enormous.
In an actual fight, he'd been dead in a heartbeat.
Or you could just say no to using improperly sized armor and shields and save yourself the headache of comming up with rules for it.
Somewhat tangential: I am under the impression that magic clothing resizes to fit the wearer (especially for rings and such); I can't recall why this is or if it is RAW or not.
Logically, I wouldn't think that this should go beyond one size category of difference, but I think armor falls under "clothing" in the sense that it is something you wear that should for the most part fit the shape of your body in some way.
That's how I personally handle it; as it's stated there's no RAW. +1 leather armor sized for a halfling? The human druid can wear it, because she's medium, and the armor can magically warp to fit her. The large +3 breastplate that came off the stone giant? Not gonna shrink enough to fit the gnome in your party, too great a size difference, but the half-orc is big enough.
I'm sure this doesn't help at all, though.
Somewhat tangential: I am under the impression that magic clothing resizes to fit the wearer (especially for rings and such); I can't recall why this is or if it is RAW or not.
Logically, I wouldn't think that this should go beyond one size category of difference, but I think armor falls under "clothing" in the sense that it is something you wear that should for the most part fit the shape of your body in some way.
That's how I personally handle it; as it's stated there's no RAW. +1 leather armor sized for a halfling? The human druid can wear it, because she's medium, and the armor can magically warp to fit her. The large +3 breastplate that came off the stone giant? Not gonna shrink enough to fit the gnome in your party, too great a size difference, but the half-orc is big enough.
I'm sure this doesn't help at all, though.
That's 4th ed. I pathfinder you need to get armor in your size and shape.
Funny, I'm a 3.5'er graduated to PF. I don't own any 4e material and have only played twice without being forced.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In an actual fight, he'd been dead in a heartbeat.
What actually fights have you seen where people cast magic spells and summon monsters?
Reference where larger/smaller sizes:
Clothes sizes for medium creatures alone vary so broadly, so widely, it's difficult to even think about what it would be like for creatures of two different size categories trying on each others' clothes.
There is no RAW on the issue, so we're left exclusively with GM fiat, though if we want to stick as close to RAW as possible, we're left with the inevitable-if-silly conclusion that the size of armor - except for full plate - and the size of shields don't matter. So that's RAW.
But that's also silly, boring, and not really very interesting, so let's think a little more about it.
If it's too small?
In the real world it either won't fit, or will likely gain the broken condition very soon (and that's two medium-sized creatures! But the difference would be similar to a very tall Halfling and short dwarf). This can be modeled with game mechanics fairly easily (though not RAW rules). Percentage chance of dealing 1d6 points of damage for each strenuous action you take (if the armor is solid or hardy) or gaining the broken condition (if the armor is, say, padded), and a dexterity penalty for the restricting confines of the smaller stuff. If it's more than one size category? I've looked at tiny-sized clothes. My toddler's clothes. They would cover... my foot and some of my lower calf. And that's about it.
Any smaller than one size category, I'd rule that you might be able to "salvage" some valuable pieces from some of them ("Hey, this half of a breastplate would make great paldrons!") to make a cheaper armor of your own size later. Maybe half price per category difference? Same difference as the weight? I dunno. I'd rule, though it's certainly not RAW, something along that lines.
If it's too large?
In the real world, you can do this. But once it reaches a certain threshold (let's call it "one size category") you're going to have to expend a substantial amount of energy just keeping the stuff on. For example: have you ever seen people who wear the extremely baggy jeans, usually just at or below their rear end (displaying, of course, their boxers)? I do, far too much. Have you ever seen them run? They have to hold on to their pants, because, if they don't the pants don't stay on; even so, they often have to run more slowly. Even if they walk, they often tend to walk with a little bit of a waddle (as my friend assured me, he called it a "cool swagger") to keep the pants on (although it's ostensibly to "look cool"). I could see something like this being modeled with a size-category different armor. You either lose the use of one or two of your hands to hold the stuff on, or you lose (or halve) any dexterity bonus you've got. That's (stretching it) one size category larger than you are. Two size categories or more, it basically boils down to two options: 1) cover (it's so large you can hide behind it!), 2) salvage (look at all this free metal!)
For enchanted armor, I'd allow someone with the appropriate feats to "channel" the enchantment into one (1) new suit made with the parts of the old. Subject to normal limitations, of course, so you don't get silly things like "taking twelve different +10 huge armors and salvaging them all into one, to get a +120 armor! Woo!"
Obviously, this is all not RAW.
RAW readings would lead to the conclusion, "yeah, you can wear that".
In 3.5, though, Eberron, I think, they had a special enchantment just for this that actually re-sized the armors. Made in the ancient giant empires, but not terribly popular (they didn't want to empower their slaves, after all). I wish I had that book on-hand. Oh well.
I think I mentioned this in another thread, but the fact that there are different cost and weight multipliers for unusually large or small armor is a pretty clear indicator that you have to buy for your size.
Otherwise a Medium character could just buy Tiny-sized armor for half the price with 1/10th the weight.
I think I mentioned this in another thread, but the fact that there are different cost and weight multipliers for unusually large or small armor is a pretty clear indicator that you have to buy for your size.
Otherwise a Medium character could just buy Tiny-sized armor for half the price with 1/10th the weight.
True! This is clearly RAI. Maybe there's RAW somewhere that states what you can wear, based on size?
|
|
Now, within reason, I could imagine a halfling wearing medium sized armor, but with some sort of penalties.
Also, as shields are also weapons, you can, by RAW, wield them as weapons.
How this would effect their ability to provide a shield bonus, is unknown to me. I could see adjusting the straps, just like a fat-armed, or skinny armed person would do with a shield of their size.