How do you handle keeping a party at the same level, when you've got people who either don't show up, or only show up intermittently? Also, what about people who show up halfway through the module, two game nights into the adventure? Should they get the XP that the rest of the party gets who are there every game night?
I run out of a game store, so I can't turn anyone away. Plus, I like to bring in new players to the game. It just plays heck with my continuity and party leveling schedule.
Well sometimes there are Time constraints on things. I would assume this isn't a PFS game so your free to penalize them XP. I have seen an excellent idea suggested on another board.
For anyone that shows up on time and ready to play they get one free re-roll for that game. If your late you don't get it.
Basically you can also reward those that are doing the right thing. Being on time and such.
In this situation, at a game store, and not an ongoing private gaming group, just decide when everyone goes up in level and keep everyone there. No penalties. I like the above reward of a reroll. The other likely reward is that those who are present and participate get a share of the treasure.
I was going to answer differently until I saw that it was a game store situation.
I had a player/friend like that.
Our group had a discussion and we realized he a) wasn't a very good player b) skipped sessions for trivial reasons and c) just didn't really provide anything of value to any member of the group.
So we just stopped inviting him or talking to him.
We didn't really tell him this. We just stopped.
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I have a similar problem, I just continue the game without them. I plan for the consistent players and when ol' unreliable does show up, they are lower level, have less gear, and tend to die pretty soon. The problem kind of solves itself. I limit the number of players I allow (not sure if you can do this), and if someone else has asked to play before, then they have to wait for a slot to open back up before they can create a character (1 level lower than APL, which is how I do for all new characters that start after the campaign begins).
I continue the game without them. If they are there then fine. If not, oh well.
Replace them with stuffed animals.
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In a game store environment, it can be tough. My suggestions:
1) Try something like the West Marches campaign as described on Ars Ludi. Great for variable player groups. I've been wanting to run a campaign like this because it just sounds FUN. You can do it as a megadungeon instead of wilderness if you prefer.
2) Ignore standard XP awards and just have everyone level when it fits the module or AP you're running.
3) Award XP and gold at the end of every session. If someone misses a session, then they don't get any XP or gold for it.
4) Consider switching over to running your games as part of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign. They're geared for 5-hour sessions with a varying set of players from 3-7 at a time. (Disclaimer: I'm a Venture-Captain with the Society.)
EDIT: mistakenly said 4-hour sessions when I meant 5-hour sessions.
Just keep everyone at equal xp, regardless of whether they're there. Anything else is just too much of a hassle to deal with, in my experience. And I don't think players should be punished for missing a game once in a while, often there can be quite legitimate reasons for it.
Yep. Assuming you are dealing with adults, you have to understand that D&D is a Game, and players also have a Life.
If you're dealing with students, then talk to them, and no goodies when they don;t show up- no eps, no special RPing, no loot. They need to learn that if they don;t show up, they don;t get paid.
I game at a Hobby Store myself (the Hobbit to be exact). I have the problem that some people can't always make it to the game as well, seeing as how they can't tell the Army they can't show up.
My solution to the problem of continuity and experience is I keep everyone in roughly the same level range (some people who show up and play well get bonus xp), and for continuity I either say the missing characters are torch bearers or it is a slightly different dimension ('cause seriously, it is difficult to keep coming up with some new reason for them to be missing).
I had most excellent all-you-can-eat Thai sauce piggy ribs at a restaurant called The Hobbit in Bruge.
Guilds in MMORPGs have the cure for this -- the best loot goes to those that are on time and most consistent. The people that can't keep the faith but are good enough players, make them welcome, but they lag behind in gear (even if it's too much of a hassle to lag them behind in xp)
and honestly, if you're GM, and some of your drop-ins are empty suits... don't take 'em. It'll keep the folks who actually have a conscience honest, and you don't need that kind of shit unless they pay you.
Do you have enough consistent players to keep the game going? Great. As has been suggested, find a reward that isn't game breaking to keep them. Create a rotating character slot or two that anyone can drop in to, and NPC those characters or cede control to a willing player if there is no one to fill it. Keep a player cap, perhaps 6, and whoever shows up gets those slots. If you end up with 6 consistent players, those who show up consistently get priority. Those who show up late or inconsistently can play a board game or something if they miss a slot. They will learn fast or won't care.
I had most excellent all-you-can-eat Thai sauce piggy ribs at a restaurant called The Hobbit in Bruge.
Is the swan still there?
I know it's a bit harsh and some people would most certainly be turned off by this idea but I suggest that those who don't show up get NO EXPERIENCE if they show up with a doctors note or other written excuse (No, I'm not joking) then give them HALF EXPERIENCE. It's a bit harsh and I would never suggest this in an online game where attrition rates are so high but in an in-person game it's a different story. This will give people an incentive to actually show up, if they don't like the idea and decide not to play then they probably were intending to take advantage of the lenient rules and be absent a lot anyway.
How you deal with it depends on a few things. Firstly, do you have the SAME players all the time, just, sometimes some don't show up? Make sure that those players aren't absolutely necessary to the party's survival -- they're not the ONLY tank, or source of healing, etc. Or do you have a core group plus random occasional drop-ins? In that case you're probably better off keeping up some playable NPCs.
I'm one of those (horrible! sinful!) inconsistent players. But, you know, either we like the game and we're trying our best to make it, or we don't care. In the first case, further punishing us won't help, and in the second, in-game punishment is unlikely to lead to behaviour you want.
That said, two of my three DMs declare levels in the game ("okay, you're all 5th level now") and include me at the same level. The third uses XP, but allows players to write campaign journals for bonus XP (which increases in value if you're behind more than a level or two). I like both of those a lot better than being behind 3-6+ levels, which makes munchkinism a matter of survival.
I really like the campaign journals because I can read them (well, only one other player ever does them, but I can read those) when I'm out of town, so I can keep up with the story a bit better. If there's NO consistency to your floating players that won't help, but if you have a few, that's a good way of keeping everyone involved. (Mailing lists help with that also, but not with the XP problem.)
You either can't make it or don't care... well... I appreciate your candor.
If that's the larger reason for this kind of behavior I wouldn't cotton to such folks at all. Then we have to abide by munchkin-esque shenanigans because it's a manner of survival?
I suppose if you really needed a spittoon my skull will serve in a pinch. Yuck. Next...
Replace them with stuffed animals.
Bonus XP to someone who roleplays the animals on their turns.
But seriously, I agree with the "Keep them all the same level" with some additions. I'd create an online resource for your players, somewhere that they can check out what level you've got everyone at so they can come after missed sessions at the appropriate level(so no need to take time to level up at the beginning of a session).
I'd also use this space to host some kind of "Adventure Log" kind of thing, something that fills them in on what happened in each game, so they can keep up if they miss. A lot of extra work for a GM, but perhaps you can get one of your dependable players to write one as sort of a Character Diary. Reward said player with some kind of an RP related bonus, or maybe some kind of bonus hero points, or simply buy them a soda for each gaming session.
Not so sure how to deal with continuity errors short of handwaving them, however.
If you don't keep them the same level, you're kind of putting yourself into the cycle of because they missed a few games they're underpowered so they'll miss in the future because they don't want to be underpowered, leading into a vicious cycle of them continually being behind and you continually not having players. That said, punishing them could work if you were really trying to weed them out.
I keep people at the same level. It's way too much of a hassle to keep encounters for separately leveled people balanced, not to mention that keeping often tardy people from being on-par with the rest of the group will ultimately further disincentivize them from coming back more regularly.
This is what tells me that PFS play is a great advantage!
Want to be casual? Accept slow progress or accept a pre-gen :p
For situations where the show MUST go on, and it is a relatively informal situation (i.e., anyone who shows up can play)...
1. Collect everyone's character sheets at the end of session
2. Bot anyone who doesn't show up next time. You can bot them yourself or give the character sheet to an experienced volunteer -- or hand them to the new guy who may not show up again.
Having run games in game stores myself, I would highly suggest sticking to one shot or short adventures as much as possible. If you want to run a long term campaign or adventure path, this scenario is NOT going to work well. Now, some stores just let you play closed sessions, i.e., you start with a group, they are expected to show up or be kicked out with repeated infractions, and no one new gets added once you start -- if you can do that, then you can do a long term campaign. Otherwise for your sanity and for the benefit of the players, stick to the short stuff.
I wouldnt dock xp just because it makes it harder on u if the party has more than 1 level sperating them. Not only do u have to figure up xo different, but u have to consider the lowbies when u throw monsters at the party. A monster for a 7th level guy would probably destroy a 5th level one so... With that said i wouldnt give them loot for sessions missed, as thats not fair to the people willing to show up and fight for said loot.
I should add some more information. Although I'm running at a game shop, it's not MY game shop, and in the interest of the hobby and the interest of keeping the game shop in the black, we never turn away anyone who wants to play. Because of this, I pretty much have to take whomever shows up as my players. As a result, there are some modules that run four or five nights and at the end, only two out of a total of nine or more intermittent players actually showed up for every single night. It doesn't seem fair to the players who show up every week to just give out free XP at the end of the module to people who came in one night, played a pre-gen and never showed up again.
We also have some players who are just testing the waters, and they may show up at the shop on game night, only to play some completely different game.
I like the idea of half XP for the absent players, and no share of the loot. I also like the idea of gathering the character sheets and having drop-in players play the absent players' characters, but most drop-ins in my games get a pre-gen just because I want them to play something simpler than what has been custom created by another player.
It's tough. I need to find a solution, because right now I have two players about to level up to 2nd, and about six or seven others who are barely above 200 XP.
From what I see you already have a great deal of the problem solved with the collection of sheets, half xp and no rewards...though if you are going to use a set number of characters, you may wish to use the 'not-always-spoken-for' characters as NPCs until they are spoken for...just to keep them near the level of the other players.
The most useful thing for a GM in this position, to me, is the players. Ask them what they think a good solution is, or if they agree with what you think the solution is.
Best of luck from someone who has been there (and still is).
I should add some more information. Although I'm running at a game shop, it's not MY game shop, and in the interest of the hobby and the interest of keeping the game shop in the black, we never turn away anyone who wants to play. [snip] It doesn't seem fair to the players who show up every week to just give out free XP at the end of the module to people who came in one night, played a pre-gen and never showed up again.
You seem as if you want to BOTH keep the drop-ins happy (with your campaign, the game store, and Pathfinder) and also punish them for not being regulars. Making their in-game experience worse will eventually solve your problem -- they'll stop showing up altogether -- but you'd be better served being honest with them if attendance is going to be such a big issue.
I think that, if you want to recruit for the game/store, having players use characters that are level- and wealth- appropriate to the module you're running is not unreasonable. On the other hand, especially for people just discovering PF, having them run (appropriately leveled and equipped) pregens is a good idea. You'll know what you might be dealing with, you'll know how to run their characters, and your regulars -- as they learn the game -- will be "rewarded" by designing their own PCs.
I know it doesn't seem "fair," but seriously consider what good it does ANYBODY to have players whose characters are helpless and ineffective. It's as bad to always hear, "I can't do anything," as it is to say it. The real reward for players who play every game is they get to play every game. This isn't work, or it shouldn't be; this is fun.
With PF doing away with spells and item creation using XP. IF you plan on keeping everyone the same level then XP is really un-needed. I mean you can, as other have pointed out, just level your players when the Adventure calls for it. You dont even really need to keep up with XP.
Our campaign started out in a store, so the method we used there could work for you. The GM generally awards XPs and magic items to whoever actually shows up, but he does skew the latter towards items that are most useful to those who were on time and did not miss any of the action. Whenever a player character earns enough XP to gain a level, the minimum PC level goes up to one below that level.
Whenever a new player character joins the group or a frequently absent player returns, his character has his XP raised to the minimum for that level and levels up immediately. If he is new, the GM assigns him appropriate magic items. If he is a returning player, there is a good chance that the regular players have acceptable hand-me-down items to give him, if he has been absent long enough for that to matter. Otherwise, any gap in equipment can usually be made up for fairly quickly with found treasure.
Considering that you're running your game from a gaming store you'll want to avoid creating any negative associations with that store as a courtesy to the owners.
I would recommend announcing the expected APL and accepting any players that show up with an appropriately leveled and outfitted character. Have a system set up to reward consistent players - I would suggest having each PC associated with a professional organization that grants certain benefits* and where their rank in the organization depends on how many sessions they've attended. Have interesting NPCs handy to fill in any gaps in the party structure so that the players that show up can expect to face the challenges in the AP without changing their characters.
* e.g., PCs have difficulty buying magic items and alchemical items except through their professional organizations and high ranking members of that organization can get discounts on items and training.
Replace them with stuffed animals.
With Candy in them!!
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Maybe I'm a hard-@ss, but I don't feel like expecting people to show up in order to gain experience is "penalizing" them. There's a lot of talk about giving people who show up some kind of reward. In my opinion, experience points ARE the reward. That's why they're under the Rewards section in the rule book.
You can often decide whether a policy makes sense by extrapolating it to it's obvious extreme. If a player shows up at your first session, skips 10 sessions, then shows up for the final session of an adventure-path, are you seriously going to level them up on a par with the other players? Also, what if they NEVER show up? Is their character simply an XP sink that sucks XP from the other players? That hardly seems fair.
To me, it comes down to a sense of entitlement. Once players begin to feel like they are "entitled" to a reward, whether it's XP, or treasure, or whatever, then it ceases to be a reward. Instead, the withholding of said reward becomes a penalty or punishment. And that's not what gaming should be about. The only thing players in my group should feel entitled to is a good time, and that has very little to do with a game mechanic like experience points.
Based on your statements that you are running a game in a store, are trying to cultivate new players and pretty much have to take anyone who shows up:
I would eliminate XP completely, and simply tell the players when they level. This would avoid the issues of XP sinks if the missing PCs were run as NPCs.
I would provide those that showed up every session at the store with a bonus, depending on the players, adventure, etc.. It could simply be a discount on buying magic items, a greater chance of finding magic items for sale, a bonus to skill checks when interacting with NPCs (active PCs have a better reputation), an extra feat or trait every now and then, easier access to spellbooks to copy spells, reduced costs to heal and/or raise, etc...
I would explain that there is a problem in the world, a curse that affects heros, on a random basis several heros turn into figurines that end up in the active PCs pockets (to explain how and why PCs keep appearing and disappearing, and how to keep them in the adventure when they do show up).
Considering that you're running your game from a gaming store you'll want to avoid creating any negative associations with that store as a courtesy to the owners.
I would recommend announcing the expected APL and accepting any players that show up with an appropriately leveled and outfitted character. Have a system set up to reward consistent players - I would suggest having each PC associated with a professional organization that grants certain benefits* and where their rank in the organization depends on how many sessions they've attended. Have interesting NPCs handy to fill in any gaps in the party structure so that the players that show up can expect to face the challenges in the AP without changing their characters.
* e.g., PCs have difficulty buying magic items and alchemical items except through their professional organizations and high ranking members of that organization can get discounts on items and training.
The organization bit would be too organized for our group. If somebody gives enough advance notice, we can tell them how to generate their characters (expected party level, magic items, and so forth) in advance -- otherwise somebody generally pulls out the Character Builder on their laptop and helps them get started. The balance trick here is to reward the players who show up most often (they generally have more XPs and slightly better magic items than the rest of the group) but not to let anyone fall so far behind that they cannot pull their share of the weight. One advantage that a new player may have is that, given knowledge of what character types are already in the party, a player who so chooses can create a character who fills in any role gaps in the party.
Since we don't usually play APs (Adventure Paths, right?), the GM generally scales the encounter for the number of players present. I still remember one evening where nearly EVERYBODY was late for the game. The GM set up the initial encounter, and we saw him pull out and place another monster every time another player arrived. We have gotten used to handwaving the appearances and disappearances of various player characters.
Generally, I have two types of players: the ones who show up regularly and ready to play, and those who drop in occasionally or just for one session, and sometimes forget to bring their character sheets.
I get NO notice of who will or won't be there. I've tried using the game shop's Facebook page as a meeting place and "roll call" area, but it's hit or miss. Most of the time, I know who my party will consist of about 15 to 30 minutes into the game, when the stragglers show up.