that them there the breaks kid
It does suck but a lot of monsters can outpace a standard 30' just as easily as a 20' movement.
Tanglefoot bags are your friends.
If the GM is going to have encounters that he knows you can't kill, for example, a powerful monster in a dungeon sandbox, should he tell you before the game starts (probably yes)?
He needn't be that specific. A vague warning like "A party that knows nothing but 'attack, fight, kill' will not do well in this adventure" should suffice, I think. There are many ways of designing characters good for such adventures, as I will explain below.
And if he does tell you, is it fully stupid to make a character with a movement of 20'?
Stupid? No. There ARE other ways of dealing with situations in which fighting can get you killed. Maybe one character can be good with diplomacy, while another can have useful spells or items for such a situation (as the previous two posts have demonstrated).
However, I personally dislike playing slow-moving characters, yes. When I make a cleric, for example, I typically equip him with light armor and make sure that either he's carrying a light load or else can easily drop enough to make his load light, in those situations that call for the better part of valor. That, however, is just an idiosyncrasy of mine, not an absolute rule for everyone to follow. Many people feel that their clerics MUST have more protective armor, and that way of thinking is by no means stupid. One could more reasonably argue that MY way is stupid. "Better slow and alive than fast and dead."
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As the old saying goes: Speed never slumps.
Not strictly true in Pathfinder, I know, but having a good movement rate and good initiative can cover for a lot of other weaknesses.
It's fine to make a slow character. You just better make sure they're quite the home-run hitter. (Or can line untouchable doubles like Edgar.)
First of all, how is the monster too powerful? If a DM pits a monster with a CR that is WAY higher than the APL (average party level)... then that's just bad DMing. -_- The only time that's "okay" is when the DM is using the monster to PREVENT the party from doing something the DM doesn't want them to do. Doing it just to see if the party can deal with it is bad DMing... even if it was MEANT to be a challenge of escaping, it's still too challenging of a CR. In general DMs should avoid putting the party at risk of facing too high of a CR encounter... and if for whatever reason a DM does, he should be very careful... a senseless TPK is no fun for anyone at the table.
If your party is simply not good enough to face a CR appropriate wandering monster, however... that's another discussion. :p
Expeditious retreat
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You don't need to outrun the creature, you just need to outrun the rest of the party ;-)
My halfling Paladin would try to hold the dragon back long enough for his friends to escape. He's fearless from both race and class, so bring it on you overgrown iguana! :)
First problem is you only have three characters in your party. Your Dwarf/Cleric is probably healing the others in melee and not getting invovled in the front line. Second, where are the magic users or archers? If you don't have enough players to run 4-5 characters I would suggest running two characters. Or, the GM might have to dumb down the battles.
As a GM, if I told you that tonights game will be difficult and even result in a TPK how do you prepare for that? As a player, I assume every night my be my characters last one. I don't want to know what we are fighting that night or the types of traps as well.
The answer is to slow your pursuers of course. There are countless ways to do this. One poster mentioned a tanglefoot bag. Dropping a bag of marbles could make the area behind you difficult terrain. Pulling the strings on your bags of caltrops and letting them flitter out as you flee is a really good way to do it (if the enemy doesn't slow down and take its time, then it can easily end up moving at 1/2 speed). Spilling some oil could do much the same. At higher levels, simply casting a wall spell, solid fog, or haste can cover your party.
Even a wand of summon monster can slow enemies down long enough to escape.
I dislike the 20ft speed races, avoid medium/heavy armor, and in general like monks (and the Kensei magus, who can also pull off 0 armor).
It's like the old proverb says: "Gotta go fast"
I dislike the 20ft speed races, avoid medium/heavy armor, and in general like monks (and the Kensei magus, who can also pull off 0 armor).
It's like the old proverb says: "Gotta go fast"
My Human Cleric with the Travel Domain, Mithril Breastplate (counts as light for movement), and Longstrider says "Hi."
That's fair Naedre, it is possible to be just as quick in medium armor, if that medium armor is made of mithril.
For me, however, medium/heavy armor also takes away from the image I like most of my characters to have. Wrapping yourself in tin foil just won't do :P
Don't forget about CMB and CMD. If you can't beat 'em knock 'em down and run. Better yet, if you can knock 'em down wait till he tries to get up. Free attack each time. Most of my players forget about CMB and CMD. You ain't got to kill it, you just have to outsmart it.
That's fair Naedre, it is possible to be just as quick in medium armor, if that medium armor is made of mithril.
For me, however, medium/heavy armor also takes away from the image I like most of my characters to have. Wrapping yourself in tin foil just won't do :P
Oh no, I wasn't saying I disapprove of speed, I was just waving hello as I ran alongside your horse. :)
Well, I guess technically I would have to take the Run feat, and then I would move the same speed as the horse, but still.
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I would say it was meant as a RP Encounter and not intended for combat.
But if the local band of 1st level adventures are hell bent on tracking down an killing a dragon, its not the GM's job to make it easy for them.
There are two lines of thought.
- Every encounter should be killable by the PC's
- Every encounter should be survivable by the PC's
The first one is not that much fun, as you're expected to kill everything you face, and I like at least some role-play in the game otherwise go play a computer game.
A survivable encounter could be if they negotiate they will survive, or they get captured, or when they retreat the monster ignores them as not worth its time...
Just because it is set up that way does not mean the party can't derail the plan and get them selves killed by the big bad.
I usually give hints about their adversary..
This has included a troop of paladins racing ahead of them, and their bodies strewn oven the entrance way, characters remembering previous heroes who disappeared when going after the monster and such things like that.
Maybe throwing in some story about negotiations that have taken place previously.
This is a great role for a bard if there ever was one, to introduce plot points to players ;)
It does lead to my style of play
- every encounter should be fun to play
This includes TPK encounters... if it was not fun, it should not happen. My last session took 4 out of 6 characters out and they enjoyed it. Said it was one of the most memorable encounters to date. It helped that two advanced mirrors of opposition showed just how powerful the PC's were when used against themselves :D
If you blindly walk through a dungeon, you are likely to run into something you can't beat. A teachable moment.That's funny. The adventures I've read or played generally taught me that walking through the dungeon is ALWAYS a matter of blindness.
Did the party try to determine what they faced ahead of time (local knowledge or diplomacy to gather information on the denizens)?Yep. Local knowledge told the party all kinds of old legends, which might and might not be pertinent to whatever's in the dungeon. And with diplomacy, the party learned a ton of rumors, with no way of determining which rumors were utterly false, which were true, and which were technically true but misleading. Really, I've never found dungeon-research to be worth squat, ever since "Keep on the Borderlands". Bree-yark.
Did the halfling rogue try to scout ahead?
Yep. And he never returned. What a pity the rest of the party wasn't around to protect him when he made a bad "Stealth" roll, or one of the monsters made a good "Perception" roll. And what a pity (to tie this back in with the subject) that the halfling had a low running speed.
I'm sorry if this comes off as snark, but seriously, my experience with preparation has led me not to put a lot of stock into it.
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I'm sorry if this comes off as snark, but seriously, my experience with preparation has led me not to put a lot of stock into it.
Since you aren't the original poster, you're wasting people's time.
His DM may run a different style of game than you are accustomed to and may be expecting (and rewarding) this behaviour. I have seen research pay off more than not. I have also seen more than one rogue push his luck and attempt to grab loot before reporting back to the party and die for it.
one of my favorite dwarf characters to play is actually a ranger, and one of the first level spells he prepares every day as soon as he gets them is longstrider =). it's handy, it's fun, it lasts hour per level =).
Asta
PSY