Help! - Knife at Throat.


Advice


Situation - A brave group of adventures have shown up at a bandits lair. After fighting their way to the head bandit they see that he has a helpless prisoner grabbed, with a dagger at her throat.

Assume this is a standard mix of adventures: fighter, cleric, wizard, thief, barbarian (class mix can be different). Levels 3-5. The thief has not been spotted and can go invisible and maybe sneak up to the head bandit but is a DEX build and small in size.

Head Bandit has declared he'll slit her throat at the first sign of aggression or spell casting.

What can the adventures do?

Grand Lodge

What CAN they do? Charge in ignoring the risk of life to the prisoner.

What SHOULD they do? Have the thief go invisible and stealth up to the bandit, and try to kill the bandit quickly, whether coup de grace, called shots, death by SA or w/e.


Beat him to initiative and bullrush him or put him to sleep. Get into melee range and take AoOs against him when he tries to Coup de Grace the woman. Use an AoO to disarm him.

He has to Coup de Grace. He isn't flanking her and if she struggled or pulls against the knife at all she isn't flat footed, so no precision damage. If he just stabs her once for 1d4+3 or whatever, there is no way he can take off enough of her HP that a cleric couldn't heal her.

If you want to make it more dangerous, state that she is already at -X HP but stable, that the rogue is holding her up, and that she is flatfooted. That way, if he gets a turn at all he can just stab her and kill her without screwing around with the Coup de Grace rules and taking all those free shots.

Dark Archive

Shoot the hostage!

They're actions are:
1. Drop their weapons

There are no instant death options like you see in action movies where the hero gives the instant death shot to the head gunshot.


Thought coup de grace requires target to be helpless.

Called Shots where?

SA probably wouldn't do enough damage. This is a end boss.

Dark Archive

Another option would be:

Drop weapons while rogue is sneaked and hidden
Have the rogue ready an action that waits till the boss lowers the threat of instadeath to the villager
Wait until boss drops weapon because he feels confident
Have the rogue bullrush the hostage away.

Grand Lodge

Rogue goes inviso and disarms head bandit, while this is going on melee types close, cleric holds action to cast highest power cure on hostage if head bandit gets lucky vs. disarm, wiz does what he can focusing on getting hostage out of danger.


In such circumstances a few weeks ago, our gnome ranger/monk who was out of view and quaffed invisibility potion used bull-rush to push the halfling bandit away from the hostage - but it was made possible because the hostage was carried by another character instead of being held by the bandit himself.

Disarm by invisible character seems to be the best option.

Sovereign Court

Does the cleric have hold person memorized? Try to win initiative PCs in my current game do not negotiate with terrorists. Your PCs may be different though. They could let the head bandit go in exchange for the NPC's life. I would prefer to role play it out myself. Some of the answers above are kind of gamey for my taste. The whole "he can only do 1D4+str mod" is something that really breaks immersion for me at the table.


Pan wrote:
Does the cleric have hold person memorized? Try to win initiative PCs in my current game do not negotiate with terrorists. Your PCs may be different though. They could let the head bandit go in exchange for the NPC's life. I would prefer to role play it out myself. Some of the answers above are kind of gamey for my taste. The whole "he can only do 1D4+str mod" is something that really breaks immersion for me at the table.

It upholds it for me. There is almost no freaking way that a human being can touch you with a knife that will cause both cardiac and brain death instantly. If someone is standing around who can undo the wound in six seconds by touching you, you will live. He needs to do a Coup de Grace because he is trying to deliver a wound God Can't Cure. Good luck with that.


Pan wrote:
The whole "he can only do 1D4+str mod" is something that really breaks immersion for me at the table.

And potentially the GM too, that's why you have to be careful saying it at the table. In case he pulls out Rule0 or some obscure rule, of just has lots of sneak attack?


Attack, if the girl dies and you feel bad for her then in just a couple levels (aka a few in game weeks probably) you can rez her.


cranewings wrote:
He isn't flanking her and if she struggled or pulls against the knife at all she isn't flat footed, so no precision damage. If he just stabs her once for 1d4+3 or whatever, there is no way he can take off enough of her HP that a cleric couldn't heal her.

Well, he did say she was helpless, so we must assume unconscious or bound. I would go with bound because a conscious prisoner can scream for help, and that will humanize them to the party. This adds SA back into the mix and makes insta-death level dependent. A rogue with a d4+3 and even 3d6 SA has an average of sixteen points of damage. Just enough to make death a reality for a Commoner 1. Sounds like he has a readied action and a helpless (read flat-footed) target. Would good PC's risk that?

Important questions: Is the Bandit leader alone? Are the PC's good? Does anyone have diplomacy or maybe even intimidate?

I will presume the bandit is alone as you have not stated otherwise and that the PC's are good or this would be a poor ploy. That only leaves a hopeful Diplomacy check - Intimidate if they are desperate. Talk your way out of this.

The bandit is in a Mexican stand off situation. Even if he orders the PC's to disarm, the wizard and cleric still have spells ready. He cannot abandon his hostage. If he kills her, he will most likely die. If he didn't think that, he probably wouldn't have resorted to a hostage to begin with. A good Diplomacy or Intimidate check may get him to surrender or trade his escape for the hostage. Better to let him go than kill an innocent. Right? That compromise may even be possible without a diplomacy check, as that is really the only thing he can ask for anyway.


Does this bandit leader perhaps have the prisoner "pinned", as the condition? Then he could perform a coup de gras as a full action (bound is included in the list of conditions that make you "helpless", and pinned states that the person is "bound"), but only if he wins initiative (he can't ready a coup de gras as you can't ready an action outside of combat, and you can't ready a full action anyway).

Nothing in the description of pinned states that you have to have the person on the ground, leaning on them with all your weight. The point here is the drama of the situation: the PCs have to make an impossible choice, or try something super risky to save the day. In this case, if the RAW don't support a character being able to present this kind of threat, the GM needs to be free to step outside the rules and say this is going to happen.

The OP asked for IC strategies to deal with the situation, not OOC justifications that the players can give the GM to say why his dramatic situation can't work according to the rules. In that light, I'd suggest that the thief going invisible is a good strategy. The thief would get one good sneak attack against the bandit leader, then possibly another when the bandit leader attempted his coup de gras (provokes AoO - now that's a completely off-topic questions...if your first action in combat provokes an AoO, are you still considered flat-footed against said AoO?). As many PCs as possible winning initiative is crucial here, and everybody throwing whatever they've got at the bandit leader, hoping that something breaks up the situation is important, too.


Without knowing the full situation it is difficult to offer too much advice, but since the party has an invisible rogue in the room I would have the other party members back out of the room and have the rogue wait for an opportune time to surprise the villain (should be able to get in 2 sneak attacks with surprise round and good initiative on round 1) while calling out for the PC's to come charge into the room. Good luck!


Invisible/stealth disarm is your best bet.

Otherwise maybe a trip? A lot depends on the stealthy one in that situation.

If you have a bard, I think there's a feat in either UM or UC that lets you hide your spells with bardic performance (forget what it's called). That might allow you to cast something without provoking a readied action.

As for all the "this situation couldn't work" arguments: Did anyone ever say the helpless girl was currently at full hp? In my experience NPC prisoners are hurt to the point of barely retaining consciousness more often than they are kept in good condition, and it takes very little to drop one.

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