Anybody have any good ideas for a build where a Quadruple Amputee can have all of his limbs replaced with monkey familiars? Because I really want to play that. I also don't think it would be important for such a character to ever have to talk, so he could probably be mute as well. The best thing about it? The monkeys could probably all use individual bows.
Anybody have any good ideas for a build where a Quadruple Amputee can have all of his limbs replaced with monkey familiars? Because I really want to play that. I also don't think it would be important for such a character to ever have to talk, so he could probably be mute as well. The best thing about it? The monkeys could probably all use individual bows.
Maybe if it were a Necro.
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Anybody have any good ideas for a build where a Quadruple Amputee can have all of his limbs replaced with monkey familiars? Because I really want to play that. I also don't think it would be important for such a character to ever have to talk, so he could probably be mute as well. The best thing about it? The monkeys could probably all use individual bows.
I do, but it involves cutting out the middleman.
...Anyone?
Go to a hobby shop and rent some time with a bow. When you figure out how you can load arrows from a quiver, string the bow, aim, and fire, with just one arm, you'll have answered your own question.
I want to say I saw a cartoon once where someone(maybe small enemy mooks or something, I dunno) fired a bow that was much too large for them with a complicated maneuver involving jumping and use of their feet to hold the bow while pulling the string with their hands, firing while in mid air. Or maybe it was a video game.
Probably wouldn't be able to fire very quickly like that, but if we allow silly, that'd be one way, I guess. Of course, good balance and prehensile feet offer other methods, so perhaps a one armed Vanara archer?
Actually if you attach the bow to say your boot...then you just have to get a leg up to start launching arrows...but this is actually off the original subject. Mute characters and what problems it incurs, as well as should there be any rewards to offset it.
I had a mute character at my table during a one off game a few years back. She was an acrobatic rogue type with a mix of three communication methods - in combat, she carried a signal whistle for a few basic codes (eg attack, retreat, duck, help), out of combat she had a few points in Perform (mime) for simple things, and a writing slate for more complex things.
As a one off, it worked well, but I don't know how long it would have lasted in a longer game.
We played a high level game where we had a vow of silence monk. He had a helm of telepathy.
I see we are still split...that's healthy. Sure some people have been perhaps a little jaded by players in the past trying to pull something like this and others have had decent experiences with it. It isn't meant for everyone, that is for sure. Still, there are a lot of good arguments for both sides.
Thank you everyone.
By the way, the archer was a joke.
I generally feel like if a player wants to take up a flaw to roleplay, that's their choice. As long as they feel they can play the character effectively--and I might ask for a trial period depending on what they ask for--then I'll allow it. I don't feel obligated to reward them for wanting to take on a challenge, if their motivation is truly to receive a challenge, then rewarding them would remove the challenge...
Now, if you want to use a flaw system, a la Unearthed Arcana, which by design you take a flaw so you can also buy a boon, that's different. In Pathfinder, I might allow someone a free trait.
As to muteness, I'm in a game where someone plays a mute druid--for no other reason as far as I know other than the player wanted to play a mute character. The player describes her and her animal companion's actions well and her inability to communicate verbally has not been a problem yet (her pet tiger could always roar if it needs to grab our attention). I'm curious to see how it will play in the long run but honestly it's worked better than I thought it would when the player first introduced the character to the group.
Yeah, the Tongues curse is basically mute for all intents and purposes. You can't warn people whenever things get desperate unless someone understands Celestial or Terran or whatever.
Great idea! I will pass that along to the GM. I feel good about rewarding the party.
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All this talk about limbless characters has me remembering a 3.5 game. We were playing a meatgrinder mega-dungeon and managed to stumble in on a rather powerful dragon when we were way too low-level to deal with it.
My rogue got pounced on by it and pinned down, would have been killed with a coup de grace but the DM gave some gruesome flavor text of it toying/torturing me by eating my legs first. It gave the other chars time to come up with a ridiculous plan that got me dimension doored away and taken safely back to town.
We didn't have a way to actually regenerate his limbs at any point in the foreseeable future and rather than retiring the character the party decided stubbornly that he could still go with. Our fighter was a goliath who was going hulking hurler and I strapped myself to his back(with the joke that I'd be his last piece of ammunition) and I shifted over to throwing daggers instead of stabbing with them. We all got murdered in the dungeon before too much longer, but I actually used my next level to go wizard saying that I was going to become an effigy master(they make construct animal companions) so I could make myself a centaur body.
We would have been more effective with a whole rogue, sure, but it added a lot to the party dynamic and is one of the groups we still talk about years later. There is a lot more to what makes a character and a party than tactical strength, RP opportunities(particularly ones that don't just spotlight one person but can be shared) can mean a lot.
We played a high level game where we had a vow of silence monk. He had a helm of telepathy.In other words a flaw that was really not a flaw.
If you call having to pay for a $27,000 magic item for basic communication not really a flaw, then sure.
Well, TCG, the helm doesn't become less effective just because it's extra crucial. It's still a handy item for the same reasons. So I'd say it's still not much of a flaw.
Well, TCG, the helm doesn't become less effective just because it's extra crucial. It's still a handy item for the same reasons. So I'd say it's still not much of a flaw.
Not much can't be overcome when you're playing an 18th level game. Frankly, my character had mind link up most of the time anyway so he didn't really need the helm. However if we played from 1st level it'd have been more difficult, as most things are at level 1.
That was the guy's point. It's not really a flaw if you're starting high-leveled. The point in being mute is roleplaying opportunities, so if you have a telepathic helm, the roleplaying opportunities change--and probably diminish, since the roleplaying is now limited to "why does he only talk in our heads?" instead of "what is he trying to tell us?"
I'm not saying it's 'inferior' or anything, just that it's not as relevant as it seems.
That was the guy's point. It's not really a flaw if you're starting high-leveled. The point in being mute is roleplaying opportunities, so if you have a telepathic helm, the roleplaying opportunities change--and probably diminish, since the roleplaying is now limited to "why does he only talk in our heads?" instead of "what is he trying to tell us?"
I'm not saying it's 'inferior' or anything, just that it's not as relevant as it seems.
He wasn't doing it as a flaw he was RPing it. He even broke his vow once because what he had to say what THAT important. Lost his abilities for a bit too.
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I had a mute character at my table during a one off game a few years back. She was an acrobatic rogue type with a mix of three communication methods - in combat, she carried a signal whistle for a few basic codes (eg attack, retreat, duck, help), out of combat she had a few points in Perform (mime) for simple things, and a writing slate for more complex things.
As a one off, it worked well, but I don't know how long it would have lasted in a longer game.
The Signal Whistle thing can be useful even for regular groups, it could give the PCs (or NPCs) an advantage for a while.
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Mute curse
Zaiobe (the character who has it)
James Jacobs admited it is more suited for NPCs than PCs
and as OP/TC said, not really suited for Low/No Magic games.
He wasn't doing it as a flaw he was RPing it. He even broke his vow once because what he had to say what THAT important. Lost his abilities for a bit too.
Again,
That's the point.
I was pointing out that it's not really a flaw if he has a helm. That's why I said it wasn't really relevant.
I had a mute character at my table during a one off game a few years back. She was an acrobatic rogue type with a mix of three communication methods - in combat, she carried a signal whistle for a few basic codes (eg attack, retreat, duck, help), out of combat she had a few points in Perform (mime) for simple things, and a writing slate for more complex things.
As a one off, it worked well, but I don't know how long it would have lasted in a longer game.
The Signal Whistle thing can be useful even for regular groups, it could give the PCs (or NPCs) an advantage for a while.
Indeed it can.
I reckon that's why armies have been using basically the same system for centuries ;)
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I'm in with the camp that says "you don't get a reward if you elect to hamper your character for role-playing purposes." The role-play opportunity IS the reward. (Edit: The one exception I can think of would be the creation of a trait that gives the character a point of linguistics (sign language) and treats linguistics as a class skill. But even then, there is a flavor purpose for it and the character must 'pay' by using a trait. It's also right in line with traits like Temple Child, so it doesn't really stand out.)
I think a mute character can be effective in battle. Clapping, as has already been mentioned, could be used to draw attention. Also, I can see a role-play scene with the group around the campfire one night, discussing the tactical realities of a mute party member. Codes could be developed using ground stomps and/or finger snaps. Meanwhile, the mute character would slowly teach the rest of the party his version of sign language. This would give everyone a role-played reason to invest a skill point in linguistics (sign language) and (depending on how in-depth the party wants to take the clapping/snapping thing) linguistics (battle code). Within a few levels, the party could end up with one silent language for stealth situations and one language that would be indecipherable (short of magic) to any outsider. There may even be a spell one of the arcane people can research/create that would prevent someone from understanding the language (and block telepathy, depending on the level of spell).
As for more in-depth communication in RP situations, that's what the gesturing is for, unless you want the alternate RP experience of using a battle language for non-battle purposes. Kind of a "what Lassie, Timmy fell down the well?" type of scene. It could be fun.
Then, were I DMing this group, this would be a GREAT opportunity to work on the RP skills of the group. The players would welcome some between-session coaching or RP ideas to better communicate. As DM, I'd give it 2-3 levels, and if the mute thing just isn't working out like the player and/or party thought it would, have one of the major items (replacing a magic sword or otherwise in the slot of 'the really useful thing for this treasure hoard') be something designed to minimize the difficulty. Maybe a medallion that grants telepathy for 1 or 2 times per day so the player can have a means to say the really important thing.
Alternately, if the group doesn't want to be coached or the DM doesn't want to do it, introduce a mute NPC who uses different methods of communication than the group has thought of. They could see something they like and go "that's a great idea, why don't we try that!" Also, that NPC would be more inclined to travel with the party (if the DM wants that) under the guise of 'us mute people should stick together.'
While I don't think that being mute is instant death for party effectiveness in battle, I DO think that the warnings of earlier posters regarding player personalities should be headed. A mute character can be fun, but only if the player is the type who is willing to go wild with gestures rather than shrink into the background. It also takes a certain level of maturity from every other player in the group, and a willingness to treat it all as a role playing opportunity.
It was a high level game, presumably with the characters built at high level, which means that the monk was probably never played without the helm. So yes it effectively wasn't a flaw since the Helm DOES have uses other than enabling a mute character to "speak".If you call having to pay for a $27,000 magic item for basic communication not really a flaw, then sure.We played a high level game where we had a vow of silence monk. He had a helm of telepathy.In other words a flaw that was really not a flaw.
The point being that with resources available very few flaws are actually flaws.
I'm in with the camp that says "you don't get a reward if you elect to hamper your character for role-playing purposes." The role-play opportunity IS the reward. (Edit: The one exception I can think of would be the creation of a trait that gives the character a point of linguistics (sign language) and treats linguistics as a class skill. But even then, there is a flavor purpose for it and the character must 'pay' by using a trait. It's also right in line with traits like Temple Child, so it doesn't really stand out.)
I think a mute character can be effective in battle. Clapping, as has already been mentioned, could be used to draw attention. Also, I can see a role-play scene with the group around the campfire one night, discussing the tactical realities of a mute party member. Codes could be developed using ground stomps and/or finger snaps. Meanwhile, the mute character would slowly teach the rest of the party his version of sign language. This would give everyone a role-played reason to invest a skill point in linguistics (sign language) and (depending on how in-depth the party wants to take the clapping/snapping thing) linguistics (battle code). Within a few levels, the party could end up with one silent language for stealth situations and one language that would be indecipherable (short of magic) to any outsider. There may even be a spell one of the arcane people can research/create that would prevent someone from understanding the language (and block telepathy, depending on the level of spell).
As for more in-depth communication in RP situations, that's what the gesturing is for, unless you want the alternate RP experience of using a battle language for non-battle purposes. Kind of a "what Lassie, Timmy fell down the well?" type of scene. It could be fun.
Then, were I DMing this group, this would be a GREAT opportunity to work on the RP skills of the group. The players would welcome some between-session coaching or RP ideas to better communicate. As DM, I'd give it 2-3 levels, and if the mute thing...
Very insightful and very helpful ideas!
BTW guys, This is a first level character. A fighter who uses guns without using Grit (this is a low to no 'Arcane' magic. There are two teams: Good, Bad I'm the guy with the gun.
I also have characters for the other teams, but the 'gunfighter' is on his own mission that will take him on crossover missions with both of the others. Being CN this isn't much of a problem for him.
The problem is he isn't in a group on a continuous basis, so they may not pick up the ability to communicate with him effectively.
Fortunately I have a group who are up for just about anything...save for playing as a cohesive team, but that is another story.
Some recommended just granting sign language as a freebee and nothing more. Would other languages include sign language (if they would have some simulation of it) when choosing bonus languages?
... Not sure whats with all the magic and mind reading for a fighter, but have you ever thought of chalk and a writeing tablet? I have ran a Warforged. To rollplay not talken much(I never did), I had a peice of glass with a metal boarder and wrote in steam from a finger on 1 side while the party read the other side. The DM came up with a price a bam done. I've had a DM/GM that wanted use to stay away from magic before, so even though I often play mages my first responce to a problem is not spells anymore. Hope this helps.
My mute character says, ".. - .. ... -. --- - - .... .- - .... .- .-. -.. - --- ..-. .. --. ..- .-. . --- ..- - .-- .... .- - .. .- -- ... .- -.-- .. -. --. .- -. -.. -... . .. -. --. -- ..- - . .. .... .- ...- . .--. .. -.-. -.- . -.. ..- .--. ... --- -- . --- - .... . .-. .- -... .. .-.. .. - .. . ... .-.-.- "
We played a high level game where we had a vow of silence monk. He had a helm of telepathy.
It does seem that the player is breaking the spirit of the vow. Essentially circumventing the vow by a technicality, which would seem to be breaking the intent of the vow.
I could be forced to agree with that line of thought.
hmm Rp it out normally.
"Guys, do we want a personw ith us who can't communicate in battle or stressful situations unless we all stop what we're doing and watch him wave his hands around at us?"
Group: "Not particularly"
Wizard: *sad face*
Group: "NEXT CANDIDATE!"
The fact is- Mr. Mute only gets into the party because 5 folks are sitting around a table and no one wants to tell their buddy that the hindrance they insist is a brilliant idea is really a hindrance.
If it was RP'd out, guy would be left at the temple when his reply to "What is your name" was sign language or a hand written note.Why? Because communication in battle is vital and someone who can not do so is more of a hindrance to the party than a benefit.
Would having a raven familiar help? Somewhat.
But then what are you doing for verbal component spells? Skipping them? taking silent spell- and eating a permanent +1 spell level penalty for now until eternity on all V spells?*every single* 1st level wizard spell in the CRB has a verbal component.
Not some, not most, but every single one. So what is this wizard doing in the group?
I know what he's not doing.
he's not casting any spells. At all.Didn't check all the 2nd level ones but they look to be about the same.
(Guessing all, but hey there could be one or two that didn't have that big ole V on it)Now granted this wizard is more useless than most characters who are mute- most just can't talk but their abilities can still be used.
But ouch.
Mute wizard?
Hope he likes the library, no one's ever taking him on a road trip.Mute is just bad. Its unduly harsh for the rest of the group.
-S
Having played this sort of situation, as the mute character, I can tell you it was more like...
"Guys, do we want a personw ith us who can't communicate in battle or stressful situations unless we all stop what we're doing and watch him wave his hands around at us?"
Group: "Not particularly"
Barbarian: *cleaves table in half with axe*
Group: "On second thought..."
I would have to say sign is in the spirit of the vow.
Not meaning to argue, I am just asking this question due to the fact I have some friends who are deaf and for all intensive purposes mute.
I know some sign language and can read lips to a degree.
As players it is a little difficult to understand what they are saying compared to the others who can hear and speak, but it is still not all that difficult.
We don't view it as hampering, just more as broadening our horizons. In game they don't always have a deaf character, but more often than not they will go with a mute character. They normally get lip reading and/or sign at the beginning.
Some of our other players (to include myself) decided to 'hinder' our characters as well. Though it is a hindrance it is still a playable character.
Isn't it fair to at least grant sign/lip reading for languages known?