The Power Attacking Dragon Monk / Ranger


Rules Questions

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

So, does a combination of Aspect of the Beast (for the claws), a level of monk (Master of Many Style archetype for Dragon Style, Stunning Fist, and Imp. Unarmed Strike), Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity, and Power Attack seriously allow a character to make a full attack with his twin claws that deal damage as a two-handed weapon EACH benefiting from 1.5x STR mod and the power attack bonus?

Two attacks, dealing 1d6+(1.5x STR)+(1.5x PA bonus) each, by level 5 as a human monk/ranger. Am I missing something? Is this legitimate?


Sort of. The str bonus on your attacks would increase, but it actually doesn't make your fists 'two handed' so you don't get the extra benefit from PA.

The combination of Dragon style and Dragon Ferocity would make your first attack +2x str bonus (1.5 DS + .5 DF) and the rest will be 10+.5 x str (DF).

Now, where your plan breaks down is Flurry makes your BA effectively your monk level. With 1 level ... crappy flurry. Monastic Legacy would be good though.

If you want a scary flurry, consider making the Ranger the 'dip' class of 2 levels, and then go monk.

Beyond that, legit. Pretty neat idea.


It might be useful if you quoted the feats and explained your reasoning.

Dragon Ferocity adds half your strength bonus to your unarmed attacks. Feral combat training would allow you to apply this bonus to your claws. However, I'm not sure where you get that the bonus would also apply to your Power Attack damage. Dragon Ferocity doesn't make your attacks "deal damage as a two-handed weapon;" it just grants a bonus on damage.


Sekret_One wrote:
Now, where your plan breaks down is Flurry makes your BA effectively your monk level. With 1 level ... crappy flurry. Monastic Legacy would be good though.

Flurry just replaces your monk BAB with your monk level; other BAB works as normal. So a monk/ranger would flurry at full BAB.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

AvalonXQ wrote:

It might be useful if you quoted the feats and explained your reasoning.

Dragon Ferocity adds half your strength bonus to your unarmed attacks. Feral combat training would allow you to apply this bonus to your claws. However, I'm not sure where you get that the bonus would also apply to your Power Attack damage. Dragon Ferocity doesn't make your attacks "deal damage as a two-handed weapon;" it just grants a bonus on damage.

Well, actually, I think for the purposes of Power Attack, Dragon Ferocity DOES make it count like a two-handed weapon.

PRD wrote:

Power Attack

You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.

Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.

The claws are primary attacks, and Dragon Style/Dragon Ferocity gives you 1 1/2 times your bonus on the attacks.


Avalon: Flurry does not stack with iterative attacks from other classes.

A level 5 monk with 6 levels of ranger would have the following attacks:
Flurry: +9/+9
Normal Iterative: +9/+4

This is because a monk5/ranger6 using flurry would have +3/+3 from monk and +6 from the ranger.

For normal iterative attacks it would be monk +3 and ranger +6 = +9/+4.

Regarding Power Attack: Fatespinner is correct in that primary natural attacks have a 150% damage from power attack and thus Aspect of the Beast would gain that benefit (barring any specific wording to the contrary).

Fatespinner, you are correct in your calculations although your rationale is incorrect regarding counting claws as a two handed weapon.

Claws gain 1.5x from power attack.
Unarmed attacks gain 1.5x from strength with Dragon Ferocity.
Since your claws also qualify as unarmed attacks due to Feral Combat Training then you gain both benefits.
One problem though: if you are using your claws this way you cannot flurry. Feral Combat does not allow you to flurry with claws. However, since Master of Many Styles loses Flurry anyhow you are fine.

There is nothing about two-handed weapons in any of this.

- Gauss

Edit: I just doublechecked Dragon Ferocity. It does not grant you 1.5x strength bonus. It grants you a bonus equal to 1/2 of your strength bonus. In other cases similar to this the Developers have stated that this removes it one step and thus does not count as the original bonus. Since you get an untyped bonus equal to 50% of your strength bonus you do not qualify for the primary natural attack clause of Power Attack.

Dragon Style will still qualify though. So one claw gains the bonus, one does not.


Gauss wrote:

Avalon: Flurry does not stack with iterative attacks from other classes.

A level 5 monk with 6 levels of ranger would have the following attacks:
Flurry: +9/+9
Normal Iterative: +9/+4

I disagree. Flurry is TWF using your monk level in place of your monk's BAB. So in your scenario, the Flurry would be +9/+9/+4.

Gauss wrote:
One problem though: if you are using your claws this way you cannot flurry. Feral Combat does not allow you to flurry with claws.

Yes it does. Look again:

Feral Combat Training wrote:
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Here is the prospective build at character level 7:

Half-Orc Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2/Ranger (Shapeshifter) 5

STR 19 (includes +1 from level 4)
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 7

Alternate Racial Traits:
Toothy (gain primary bite attack)

Feats:
L1 (Monk 1) - Power Attack
Monk Bonus - Unarmed Strike
Monk Bonus - Stunning Fist
Monk Bonus - Dragon Style
Combat Style (Ranger 2) - Aspect of the Beast
L3 (Ranger 2) - Weapon Focus (Claws)
L5 (Ranger 4) - Feral Combat Training
L6 (Monk 2) - Dragon Ferocity

Full attack: 2 claws +11 (1d6+6), bite +10 (1d4+6)

The first claw attack of any given round deals an additional 2 damage from Dragon Style. Power Attack reduces all attacks by 2 in exchange for +6 to all damage, like so:

2 claws +9 (1d6+12), bite +8 (1d4+12) (with an additional +2 damage to the first strike each round)

Correct?


As explained above, Dragon Ferocity does not make your claws into weapons that give 1-1/2 times Strength. It just adds 1/2 strength damage to claws that give 1 strength. So you won't get the extra Power Attack damage.

Also, Feral Combat Training only applies to ONE natural weapon. If you want it for both claws and bite, you have to take it twice.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

You don't need Feral Combat Training for the bite. It's a primary attack that gives 1 1/2 times STR bonus already.


AvalonXQ wrote:
Gauss wrote:

Avalon: Flurry does not stack with iterative attacks from other classes.

A level 5 monk with 6 levels of ranger would have the following attacks:
Flurry: +9/+9
Normal Iterative: +9/+4

I disagree. Flurry is TWF using your monk level in place of your monk's BAB. So in your scenario, the Flurry would be +9/+9/+4.

Gauss wrote:
One problem though: if you are using your claws this way you cannot flurry. Feral Combat does not allow you to flurry with claws.

Yes it does. Look again:

Feral Combat Training wrote:
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

You might want to check with the developers on that one. They have stated that flurry's extra attacks only advance via monk levels but will add other classes BAB. This is borne out in at least one module. (Zol in Council of Thieves: Infernal Syndrome).

Regarding Feral Combat Training, I missed that. oops.

- Gauss


Fatespinner: I missed this earlier and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, your bite does NOT give 1.5x strength bonus. In order for a primary attack to qualify for that it must be the only primary attack the creature possesses.

Bestiary p302 wrote:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Should have gone with Unarmed fighter instead.


Some notes
1) MoMS doesn't flurry. They lose flurry for multiple styles.

2) Dragon style provides the extra strength bonus to damage it does not improve the power attack progression to that of a two handed weapon. You would still get the regular power attack damage to these attacks however.

3) Gauss is right, you only get your str bonus (not 1.5x) to the bite since you have more than one natural attack.

4) The first claw attack actually gets 2x the str bonus from the stacking of dragon style and dragon ferocity which I think someone else stated above.

Actually, fatespinner it seems like you have most of your ducks in a row except for the bite damage.


Its a shame you don't qualify as having the TWF feat for the purposes of feats as I could easily see Two Weapon Rend being added to this build at some point to boost your offhand damage to full STR to damage. Perhaps another reason to look at the Unarmed Fighter Build for a second option

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