Destroyed ammunition


Rules Questions


1) By the rules anyone may restore a destroyed magic item to functionality by casting Make Whole upon it (assuming they have sufficient caster level).

2) If make whole is unavailable a person with the appropriate craft feat can restore a destroyed magic item to functionality by paying half of the crafting cost (1/4 of the market price).

So: the rules on ammunition state that magical ammunition is destroyed if it hits (or 50% on a miss). Now, I know the intent is to take that ammunition out of the game forever but, by 1 and 2 it might be possible to restore destroyed magical ammunition to functionality. Can anyone else see a rule or phrase that would prevent this?

Note: this is not my attempt to bypass the system. This is primarily just a curiousity.

- Gauss

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think magical ammo loses its magic once it's been used. If so, there would nothing to restore.

-Skeld


That is the assumption yes, but there is nothing I can find that states that. The specific wording:

CRB p468 wrote:
Magic Ammunition and Breakage: When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage.

- Gauss

Liberty's Edge

I'd allow it. A caster burning a second-level spell to get one magic arrow back? Sure. Keep in mind the restriction that the caster needs to be at least twice the level of the item's caster level, so if you're trying to restore a slaying arrow, you need to be 26th level. As far as crafting goes...I'd enforce the standard crafting time for items. That can turn into quite a while for a magic arrow, depending on the enhancement.


Deathspot, you are correct regarding the make whole spell (I mentioned the caster level needed to be sufficient but did not state the double caster level requirement). As for the crafting: repairing a single arrow or a group of 50 arrows (if you wait that long) is still only 1/2 the cost (if by commission) or 1/4 the cost (if done yourself).

In all of the ammunition discussions I have read I don't remember anyone mentioning this option.

As an additional note: Mending can repair destroyed equipment as well but it leaves it non-magical. Be an interesting idea to apply that to adamantine ammunition.

- Gauss

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Now I want a magic quiver that casts make whole on broken arrows.


Meepo: lol

- Gauss


There's three different rules for ammunition breakage!

Ammunition: "Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost."

Masterwork Weapons: "Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used."

Magic Ammunition and Breakage: "When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage."

Why does non-magical MW ammo always break, but magic ammo (Which must be masterwork) only break half the time?

Maybe the damage to a normal arrow isn't as severe, since it wasn't very good to begin with ("Hey, the head is chipped and a feather is missing. Eh, it's still good enough") while a master-crafted arrow becomes worthless if it sustains even the slightest damage ("Hey, this masterwork arrow got dirty. Well, It's garbage now.") And magic is so valuable you ignore the dings and keep it? ("Man, this arrow is all messed up. It still glows though, so I'll keep it.")


I think the rules for durable arrows can be useful for this discussion:

Quote:

Benefit: Durable arrows don’t break due to normal use, whether or not they hit their target; unless the arrow goes missing, an archer can retrieve and reuse a durable arrow again and again. Durable arrows can be broken in other ways (such as deliberate snapping, hitting a fire elemental, and so on).

Drawback: If crafted with magic (such as bane), the magic only lasts for one use of the arrow, but the nonmagical arrow can still be reused or imbued with magic again.

If even a durable arrow isn't magic anymore after using it once it would be silly to let normal magic arrows be repaired and still magic.

If you just want to keep your arrows skip make whole and use durable arrows.


I'm still of the mind that arrows break way too easily in this game.


Totally necroing this post but from what I see on the rules about damaging items You cannot repair a destroyed item

"Damaged Objects

A damaged object remains functional with the broken condition until the item’s hit points are reduced to 0, at which point it is destroyed.

Damaged (but not destroyed) objects can be repaired with the Craft skill and a number of spells. (eg. make whole or mending)"

Now make whole says
"Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less)"

But as the arrow is no longer magical after it is fired as Umbranus' post says and therefore cannot be fixed with make whole, and as the text clearly exempts destroyed items, they cannot be repaired with craft skills nor mending as make whole and mending both specify in the text they can fix destroyed MAGIC ITEMS not mundane.

Scarab Sages

As an aside, destroyed doesn't mean deleted. A destroyed arrow isn't gone, but it is just no longer useable as an arrow. Open for GM description of what destroyed exactly looks like, but the phrase destroyed is misleading.

Basically objects have three levels of functionality. Fully functional, broken (which means partially functional) and destroyed (not functional).

A destroyed object can often still be used for an alternative purpose. It is just beyond the option to use it as the object it is supposed to be.


and i would add that an object destroyed as an HP = to 0 or less, so mending, makewhole and greater makewhole would be able to repair it if all the piece are together

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