Quantum Steve |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
cibet44 wrote:Simply put the Pathfinder detect evil does not detect evil of low power, the 3.5 one detects evil of any power. It's a deliberate and unambiguous change that Pathfinder made for various reasons that has various ripple effects.Caught me by surprise being a 2nd ed refugee, was ALL back then too!
But was also a 1st Level spell for most people and actually involved having to select and cast a spell as opposed to an at will Orison.
In 2E, Detect Evil detected evil intent, but had no level limitation. It also detected powerful evil creatures.
That meant that it would detect a baby eater, provided he was thinking about eating babies in the near future, as well as evil priests, undead, and outsiders, while not detecting every commoner who's kicked a puppy recently.
Kinda like it works now, except functional.
cibet44 |
In 2E, Detect Evil detected evil intent, but had no level limitation. It also detected powerful evil creatures.That meant that it would detect a baby eater, provided he was thinking about eating babies in the near future, as well as evil priests, undead, and outsiders, while not detecting every commoner who's kicked a puppy recently.
Kinda like it works now, except functional.
It's true.
I think with the PF detect evil the HD limit causes more problems than it solves. In fact, I’m not even sure what problem the HD limit is intended to solve. Seems like someone wanted to protect low level evil minions from paladins? I don’t know.
To me, that’s what the various flavors of neutral are for. I could see a line of thinking that says you don’t graduate to an evil alighnment until you attain a certain level of power (HD or levels), until then you may be angry or disgruntled or confused (some combination of neutral and/or chaotic) but not yet evil, unless you are made of evil essence (like outsiders) or spiritually devoted to it (like clerics). That all makes sense to me. The way it works now does not.
Skylancer4 |
Let's say a Paladin uses his Detect Evil spell-like ability (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Detect-Evil-Sp-), focusing on a target Commoner. The Commoner has 1 HD, and is Neutral Evil.
The Paladin's Detect Evil Spell-Like ability states "At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range."
However, according to the actual spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-evil), creatures with 5 or less HD and are not Outsiders, Undead, [Anti]Paladins, or Clerics will not have an Aura of Evil. However, the spell itself does allow the caster to detect the "Presence or absence of evil" with no reference to auras.
So basically, here's what I want to know. If a Paladin targets a Neutral Evil Level 1 Commoner with 1 HD, does the Paladin see the Commoner is evil or not?
RAW? It depends on if the NE level 1 commoner is considering doing something evil in the near future (evil intent). If they are out shopping for food, or going to the inn to kick back and have a drink, no they don't get detected as "evil." If the commoner was on the way to participate in a ritual murder of a kidnapped virgin, yeah they detect "evil."
As mentioned before Detect Evil isn't the same as See Alignment. Unless you are a BBE (listed creature type, 5+ HD and alignment/aura) or have evil in mind (intent), Pally Sight doesn't bother with you.
Kthulhu |
Shifty wrote:cibet44 wrote:Simply put the Pathfinder detect evil does not detect evil of low power, the 3.5 one detects evil of any power. It's a deliberate and unambiguous change that Pathfinder made for various reasons that has various ripple effects.Caught me by surprise being a 2nd ed refugee, was ALL back then too!
But was also a 1st Level spell for most people and actually involved having to select and cast a spell as opposed to an at will Orison.
In 2E, Detect Evil detected evil intent, but had no level limitation. It also detected powerful evil creatures.
That meant that it would detect a baby eater, provided he was thinking about eating babies in the near future, as well as evil priests, undead, and outsiders, while not detecting every commoner who's kicked a puppy recently.
Kinda like it works now, except functional.
3.0 + really borked up some of the definitions of things. Personal house rule: Use the 2E version of the spell description.
Yücel Okçu |
I had argued with my friends about the same topic then I asked to James Jacobs about it.
Here is the link: James Jacobs' answer
ryric RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
So...why would you give this ability at level 1, then? From a design standpoint, that is. Black armor with skulls, spikes, and a Mr. Yuck tabard are more than enough to tell me that the antipaladin is evil. A simple Kn: Religion check (DC 10 or 15) could identify most enemy clerics. A DC 10 Kn: Arcana can tell you about the basic differences between chromatic and metallic dragons (ask your local Arcane caster). You know that virtually anything skeletal, ghostly or rotting is fair game with a DC 10 Kn: Religion, as well.
If the ability isn't functional against humanoids until level 6, why isn't it a level 5 or 6 ability?
Not all antipaladins walk around carpeted in the trappings of Teh Evulz. Some of them are respected members of the community, responsible for donating to build orphanages
Davor |
A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
To everyone saying this statement is really obvious, I agree, but interpret it quite differently. A paladin can use detect evil as the spell, yes. He can also, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual and determine if it is evil. He also learns the strength of its aura.
You'll notice that determining if a creature or object is evil is not part of the spell description. This statement exists separate from the spell, and grants Paladins a unique ability to discern whether or not a creature is evil, regardless of aura, though they can learn about that, too.
Lemmy |
I've a different, but related question.
Does the Paladin knows if Smite Evil worked? Does he feel a divine hand guiding his attacks? Does he know that his enemy missed his attack thanks to Smite Evil not his full plate?
I couldn't find an answer, so in my table, we ruled that as soon as the Paladin connects an attack or is attacked by the creature he... smote (?) he can feel the surge of divine power going through his body. If he misses the attack or his opponents uses spells or other actions that do not target AC, the Paladin doesn't feel anything, and can't know for sure.