| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You have a few options -
Remove human / cavalier from the list
Convince the player that he can do it but he won't be happy due to the amount of inside stuff that will preclude use of a horse
Convince the player that he must go with the halfling/warpuppy combo
Modify the dungeons in a less believable way
Modify the dungeons in a believable way
As for the last, you can have adventures in crypts and caves made by an extinct race of Large creatures, like giants. You could have them outside in ruins with creepy fog that prevents players from seeing far. The cave could really be a massive underground cavern, not cramped areas.
If you have some rooms that don't allow the mount and some that do, then that should be ok. He just should know not to complain about it. If it gets bad, let him switch to one of the mount-less cavalier archetypes mid adventure as if nothing happened.
Just switch Human to Halfling and explain you made a mistake in even making that combination since you kind of want him to be viable and not disappointed.
Tell him that the game will have a LOT of dungeons, crypts etc.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
First off, I'd like to say that I've never liked the whole "dog rider" thing and your player is awesome for wanting to stick to the calavier flavour. I take it you've spoken the concerns in your post to him, so that's the first and most important step.
Make sure he understands he won't be using his mount much, and push him towards not focusing too much on the "mounted combat" line. Make sure he takes power attack. People SEVERELY underestimate the calavier on foot. Challenge is practically as good as the paladin's smite evil, and they get free teamwork feats to boot. I'd say they're one of the most powerful melee classes in the game. I don't think he'll have too much of a problem pulling his weight on foot. It's okay if the calavier has to leave his mount at the cave mouth. Really. You could even give him a hireling squire to mind the horses and carry his myriad of weapons. I can't imagine lugging a lance and a heavy shield around is a whole lot of fun.
However, it's important that your player gets to use his mount SOMETIMES, so think of a few encounters where it's possible. Perhaps they're attacked by mounted bandits or some other incredibly fast creature overland, and he's the only one in the party that can keep up. Perhaps he manages to lead his mount deep underground (have him roll the handle animal checks. Rememebr he gets a bouns!) and your party are storming an abandoned dwarven fortress (complete with a narrow helms deep style bridge that he can overrun through waves of orcs). Add a chase scene. Hell, add an enemy knight for him to joust with, or a princess in this crypt to rescue.
With my mounted characters I'm pleased if I get to mount up once a session. I think people are too concerned with trying to keep their calaviers mounted all the time, it's really not necessary.
|
First off, I'd like to say that I've never liked the whole "dog rider" thing and your player is awesome for wanting to stick to the calavier flavour. I take it you've spoken the concerns in your post to him, so that's the first and most important step.
Make sure he understands he won't be using his mount much, and push him towards not focusing too much on the "mounted combat" line. Make sure he takes power attack. People SEVERELY underestimate the calavier on foot. Challenge is practically as good as the paladin's smite evil, and they get free teamwork feats to boot. I'd say they're one of the most powerful melee classes in the game. I don't think he'll have too much of a problem pulling his weight on foot. It's okay if the calavier has to leave his mount at the cave mouth. Really. You could even give him a hireling squire to mind the horses and carry his myriad of weapons. I can't imagine lugging a lance and a heavy shield around is a whole lot of fun.
However, it's important that your player gets to use his mount SOMETIMES, so think of a few encounters where it's possible. Perhaps they're attacked by mounted bandits or some other incredibly fast creature overland, and he's the only one in the party that can keep up. Perhaps he manages to lead his mount deep underground (have him roll the handle animal checks. Rememebr he gets a bouns!) and your party are storming an abandoned dwarven fortress (complete with a narrow helms deep style bridge that he can overrun through waves of orcs). Add a chase scene. Hell, add an enemy knight for him to joust with, or a princess in this crypt to rescue.
With my mounted characters I'm pleased if I get to mount up once a session. I think people are too concerned with trying to keep their calaviers mounted all the time, it's really not necessary.
+1 This. A cavalier is not just a guy on a horse, there is a LOT more to the class then just the mounted charge.
I honestly look at the charge like the paladin's Smite evil, not something you do all the time just when you REALLY need to bring out the big guns.At lower levels (1-5) getting to do the charge once every 2-3 sessions is perfectly fine and the rest of the time the mount will function like a large flanking buddy and porter (now the party can take ALL the treasure they find not just what they can carry) who can hit pretty hard on it's own.
At medium levels the party will spend more time fighting large sized and bigger opponents and then he can charge more often and it won't feel so forced.
Relax, as long as you give him the opportunity to shine a few times between 1-5 then you shouldn't have any problems.
The Cavalier isn't a crippled character when he's off his horse. He actually CAN be a viable character as a foot combatant even if he's going to be a bit outshined by the fighter.
If you're the one making the campaign than this is one of the things you should be doing for everyone, not just the cavalier; Build in opportunities when that particular character can shine. Mini sidetrek encounters. This means that you probably need to do a better job of throughly studying the character classes.
Most importantly.... Give depth to your campaign so the most significant comparison between characters isn't simply the DPR Olympics.
I have played parties with Human and other medium cavaliers. They ARE far from useless, when off their mounts and I'm not even considering archetypes.
+1. There are plenty of archetype and order combinations that won't have a single focus on mounted combat, so a human or other medium race cavalier will be fine (even if he doesn't get to ride his cool mount all the time).
I would suggest that the player select feats that are applicable to both mounted and on-foot combat (e.g., Power Attack, Furious Focus, etc) rather than make a one-dimensional build. My samurai hasn't taken a single mounted combat feat and he shreds on horseback (picks up a lance to charge and gets mounted archery as a class feature) and excels at riding down escaping enemies.
I agree with tge above. Take mounted combat then dont worry about the rest. There are ways to deal with some obstacle stuff with cavaliers like int 3 mount abd fly and spiderclimb potions but those are not dunge9n issues. He coukd also take the cav Salinger archetype which focuses more on the banner but doesnt ignore the horse.
Its a good class and is more than just mounted combat.
As long as you are clear that there will be a lot of time he won't be able to make use of his mount and mount related feats then it's his choice to carry on with that character concept.
Here's an interesting idea. What about having some dungeons in large areas that a mount can traverse? Perhaps the ruins of an ancient giant/cyclops civilization where the halls and rooms are massive. Or maybe a massive cave system that leads into the Darklands. Dungeons don't always have to be cramped.
Crypt or cave could easily have some gaurds outside.
Dungeon or cave could have people pursue them outside when they leave.
Eventually a figurine of wonderous poewr to use as a mount.
Don't concentrate too heavily on mounted combat feats and gear. Adamantine full plate barding is probably not worth the cost in the near future.
Dimension door the mount inside when you get to the huge underground cavern.
Maybe he can learn to use something else as a mount that can move easier underground. Say a giant snake or bat.
I'd say give him an item that summons one of a variety of mounts, maybe one of them flying since you already mentioned that was going to happen.
Explain to him the wonders of his challenge ability. Then ask him to play his character with a cavalier attitude. XD
Also, consider giving him a figurine of wondrous power that he can use as a mount, or suggesting some of the group casters summon mounts for him when there is room for them to be used.
|
You don't have to turn every encounter into a cavalry charge - just make sure that you sprinkle in encounters where it works:
Guardian Monsters at the Dungeon Entrance
Bandits on the Road
A Black Knight to contend with
An overland chase scene
And you MUST include a large battle at some point, where he can lead a cavalry troop into glorious battle.
Also - some "dungeons" are adaptable. A cave system can become a canyon or defile (at least the top level). I once ran a "dungeon" that was in a thickly overgrown enchanted wood - the forest paths were basically corridors, and the clearings were basically rooms.
**EDIT**: To answer your question simply, you WILL disappoint him if you don't do anything at all and make no concessions to the fact that he wants to charge to the rescue from time to time. As long as you do soemthing to meet him halfway, you should be fine (and so should he)!
I'm currently playing a human cavalier with a horse in a dungeon-heavy game. As others have said, the key is to build your character as a melee combatant first, and then also carry a lance for those occasions when you're out on open ground - like traveling to the next dungeon.
Talk to your player and make sure you're both on the same page for this, but from the description you gave (charging in with a lance, then switching to a sword) he's already there.
The part that is actually concerning is your mention of extra-planar travel. While a Cavalier may be perfectly willing to leave his horse at a dungeon entrance (and an INT 3 animal companion-equivalent in the herd makes the party horses MUCH safer), that is not often true of going to other planes. And figuring out a way to bring the horse along makes planar travel a lot more difficult. Any pre-existing gates will need to be horse accessible, and unless you want to be lenient and allow a horse to "hold hands" you'll need a second plane shift (with no guarantee of arriving in the same location) for every PC-controlled trip.
Do the other characters have mounts for overland travel? Maybe while the party is inside a cave/crypt the mounts left outside have to deal with a an encounter where the cavalier's mount could provide some leadership.
I think the OP is more worried about open dungeons making it too easy for his characters to scout / bypass combats.
What level are you at? That changes things a bit.
As for large dungeons giving players too many option, I suggest embracing it. Say you have a large cathedral and you are worried about players flying. Throw in some gargoyles. Now the monsters can fly too.
If you are worried about teleportation effects, its easy enough to make things a little harder. Maybe teleportation can't take you through more than 50ft of earth per caster level? That would explain all the dungeons everywhere :) Just be consistent and up front in your house rules and it will be fine. Maybe your PCs will use these rules of magic against your NPCs some day, and that means that you've won :)