Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Just starting a thread to collect the folks who pledged at the $250 level. I figure we should join forces in the future game and create ourselves a guild and carve out a kingdom. Sound off here and tell us about yourself.
Me...Bart Koehler of NJ. DM of a regular Pathfinder game, father of 3 and been gaming more than the statistics indicate I should. Actively playing Diablo III and SWtoR now and again. I had a maxed LotR character at one point, but have not been back there in a while.
Looking forward to what this game will bring.
Regards,
Bart
I dislike the idea for two reasons:
1) In a game that wants to focus on role playing, you're creating an allegiance of people who's only common thread is an out of game, out of character link. It strikes me as something akin to a black guild, a white guild, a christian guild, a US army guild, a FedEx guild. It's a sort of nonsensical immersion breaker.
2) There is a level of elitism in what you're trying to do. For all I know you could be a cool, humble dude but in practice this is self exaltation. On a related note, you're creating a guild that the DM's, moderators, developers, etc. will likely favor because of your generosity. Sure, in PFO everyone will have to "pay for status" in the sense that it will be easier to level as a paying player, but you're taking the concept to a whole new level.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I dislike the idea for two reasons:
1) In a game that wants to focus on role playing, you're creating an allegiance of people who's only common thread is an out of game, out of character link.
2) There is a level of elitism in what you're trying to do. For all I know you could be a cool, humble dude but in practice this is self exaltation.
Hey Doc! No, you have me all wrong. Not meant as an elitist, superior or better than anyone guild. Just a way to have folks bond over what is a very exciting opportunity for the Pathfinder community.
I am not looking for favor, special treatment or a pat on the back. If you look at my post count, you rarely see me say much on the boards and I typically do not join a guild in an MMO. I am looking at an opportunity to build something from what I see as a very positive endeavor.
I am sorry that you saw this in such a negative light.
Regards,
Bart
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Another $250 supporter checking in. I was in the "not another MMO" camp after the disappointment of the offerings during the last several years. I am hopeful now that Goblinworks might get it right. There is a huge potential for an MMO where the players really make the world dynamic (beyond just playing spreadsheets) while at the same time retains an epic adventuring party feel.
So I'm putting in a large stake as I want to do my part to ensure it lives up to that potential.
As for me I am an old DM. Cutting my teeth on the white box version of D&D in 6th grade (you can do the math ;) ). I'm currently DMing a pathfinder game and playing in another.
So, let's raise our voices and shake the very foundation of Golarion!
Goblin Squad Member
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I dislike the idea for two reasons:
1) In a game that wants to focus on role playing, you're creating an allegiance of people who's only common thread is an out of game, out of character link. It strikes me as something akin to a black guild, a white guild, a christian guild, a US army guild, a FedEx guild. It's a sort of nonsensical immersion breaker.
2) There is a level of elitism in what you're trying to do. For all I know you could be a cool, humble dude but in practice this is self exaltation. On a related note, you're creating a guild that the DM's, moderators, developers, etc. will likely favor because of your generosity. Sure, in PFO everyone will have to "pay for status" in the sense that it will be easier to level as a paying player, but you're taking the concept to a whole new level.
Well fortunately in regaurds to 2. I'm pretty sure GW isn't stupid enough to grant things like that. Anyone with experience running or playing tabletop games already knows better then that. I'm sure all of us have at some point had one of the DMs that granted perks to his/her significant other or the person that they are intending to get with. After seeing that once in their lifetime people immidiately realize that this hurts the game, not just for the other players, but even for the person who was "benefited" in game.
That being said, I've seen it happen in MMO's. I know of at least one F2P MMO in which one person had spent soo much in micro transactions the devs bent over backwards to give her things. No-one had real estimates on what she spent, but estimates based on what she had up in her store in game... she was unloading upwords of 5-10k USD worth of cash shop items in her in game store each month... not counting what she actually used or kept for herself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I pledged 100$ due to finances. I would have done more, but I'm a disabled vet. I live off of a fixed income. I used a majority of my entertainment money for the month to even be able to pledge 100$.
Personally, I understand it wasn't your intention, but it does come across as kinda rude and insulting. Again, let me restate, I understand it wasn't your intention. Just because it wasn't your intention though, doesn't mean it didn't have that effect on others.
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I dislike the idea for two reasons:
1) In a game that wants to focus on role playing, you're creating an allegiance of people who's only common thread is an out of game, out of character link. It strikes me as something akin to a black guild, a white guild, a christian guild, a US army guild, a FedEx guild. It's a sort of nonsensical immersion breaker.
2) There is a level of elitism in what you're trying to do. For all I know you could be a cool, humble dude but in practice this is self exaltation. On a related note, you're creating a guild that the DM's, moderators, developers, etc. will likely favor because of your generosity. Sure, in PFO everyone will have to "pay for status" in the sense that it will be easier to level as a paying player, but you're taking the concept to a whole new level.
In all due respect, I think you are going pretty far out of your way to be offended about this.
I don't believe anyone who donates expects anything more than what was offered as swag/rewards. Heck, I wish I could do the 5k level and get more direct feedback to the designers, but even at that level, I trust even the $1000+ are not going to get their catered to over what is right for the game.
The guild idea is nothing more than a fun way to extended a kickstarter bonding experience. I'm sure there will be all sorts of guilds that are eventually created that bring people together with certain shared OOC experiences which would be "elitist". In fact your Role Playing concerns mean you might create a guild only for hardcore roleplayers. That would be certainly elitist.
So I say, let's all worry more about shaping a community of tolerance for all sorts of people, which is the hallmark of our tabletop hobby.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm sorry, but you really didn't think that this would be marginally insulting to people? There are lots of ways to join up with other gamers without making people feel bad about not having as much spending money as you.
How about this, a guild for people who like the color blue. There, now if someone wants to join all they have to do is change their viewpoints about the color blue, its a choice to them you see. It is not something that is completely out of their control and can be (historically)considered embarrassing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why is this any different than trying to start up a guild of people who live in Texas?
You're complaining about him unintentionally making you feel bad because you have less spending money than he does, but then turn around and intentionally try to make him feel bad for having more? Sorry, that doesn't seem right to me.
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I'm sorry, but you really didn't think that this would be marginally insulting to people? There are lots of ways to join up with other gamers without making people feel bad about not having as much spending money as you.
How about this, a guild for people who like the color blue. There, now if someone wants to join all they have to do is change their viewpoints about the color blue, its a choice to them you see. It is not something that is completely out of their control and can be (historically)considered embarrassing.
I see your point, but then I honestly think it is being a bit overly sensitive. I mean if this is insulting, then Paizo better not create those special founder icons that are part of the level. Are folks going to feel insulted every time they see that icon on the messageboard, or when they aren't considered a Goblinworks "Founder"? For that matter would the guild name be less insulting if it was called the "Founders?"
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why is this any different than trying to start up a guild of people who live in Texas?
You're complaining about him unintentionally making you feel bad because you have less spending money than he does, but then turn around and intentionally try to make him feel bad for having more? Sorry, that doesn't seem right to me.
A guild of people who live in Texas, now that's a good idea! :P
The difference is that most people are not ashamed of which state they live in, but many are of how much money they make.
Yes, you could say that I was trying to make him feel bad (which ironically you just did the same to everyone else who made a similar comment in this thread), but I just honestly found it strange that someone could not see how this could be offensive to others.
I see your point, but then I honestly think it is being a bit overly sensitive. I mean if this is insulting, then Paizo better not create those special founder icons that are part of the level. Are folks going to feel insulted every time they see that icon on the messageboard, or when they aren't considered a Goblinworks "Founder"? For that matter would the guild name be less insulting if it was called the "Founders?"
Very good points. However these is a difference between a third party saying "hey, thanks for giving us X much money", and a first party saying "hey, I gave X much money."
I know that was not the intention of this thread, and I apologize if we have hijacked it (then drove it into a ditch). Money is always a touchy subject, same as race and religion. Thats my point.
Goblinworks Founder
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Hello gents!
I'm Mathieu Dallaire, French Canadian, father of 2, military officer in RL. I'm a 250$ backer and proud of it!
I'm not a great player so I'm looking to join that very ELITE 250$ Club in order to get a LOT of priviledge and spit on the lower classes....
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And more seriously, I'm just here for the fun guys! Well met all! :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Next we can all line up and measure the size of our e-peens!
Naw, but seriously, if the concept truly bothers you then there is a very easy way to deal with it:
Introducing the Guild of $300ers. Main guild activities will include talking about how much better we are than those 250ers and trying to steal any of their members who exceed their minimum requirements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Blaeringr, I would think you'd enjoy the list? It makes for a great list of potential customers for your 'bread baking business'....
I do. What made you think otherwise? It's not real life money that will pay for my services but in game money, so your reason is actually empty. My reason is that they are creating drama, and nothing leads to good business for me like a hot pot of stanky drama. And with that in mind, I love this idea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Blaeringr, I would think you'd enjoy the list? It makes for a great list of potential customers for your 'bread baking business'....I do. What made you think otherwise? It's not real life money that will pay for my services but in game money, so your reason is actually empty. My reason is that they are creating drama, and nothing leads to good business for me like a hot pot of stanky drama. And with that in mind, I love this idea.
I was actually thinking it would lead to contracts on both ends. Which is a nice kickstarter of its own for you!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was actually thinking it would lead to contracts on both ends. Which is a nice kickstarter of its own for you!
Now back to a more serious answer: no, we don't intend to play both sides against each other very often. Assassins who take any contract that comes their way are desperate and foolish. Our intention is to gauge the community's attitudes towards potential targets in order to make ourselves a sick addiction rather than an onerous cancer.
If someone's going to try to belittle other players in an open blatant way, expect discounts regarding them (not naming anyone specifically here, just saying).
Expect discounts on Pokemon too. >8D
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Goblin Squad Member
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Each Reward Tier would have its own Clan <.<
The Demo Diabolists @ $5
The PDF Pirates @ $15
The Goblin Squad @ $30
The Print Paladins @ $50
The Signature Sorcerors @ $75
The T-Shirt Gang @ $100
The Founder's Guild @ $250
The Guild of the Granite Lithographs @ $500
The Order of the Alpha @ $1000
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Ah...now I remember why I do not post on the internet/forums. There is always the vocal minority that will find a way to twist the good intentions and generosity of others, or just find a way to diminish a good intention. There is more than one way to look at something, and it always disappoints me the large proportion of people that want to see the negative in something meant as a positive.
I wish nothing but the best for Goblinworks! I really feel, as my contribution showed, that they will deliver something new and exciting to the community that I also am eager to see come to fruition.
You naysayers out there can twist my intentions to make it seem like I am an elitist, out to take advantage of the gifts that were presented. But that is not the intention, despite the greater wisdom that the 'internet' knows about me.
Regards,
Bart
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Goblin Squad Member
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You naysayers out there can twist my intentions to make it seem like I am an elitist, out to take advantage of the gifts that were presented. But that is not the intention, despite the greater wisdom that the 'internet' knows about me.
Regards,
Bart
Hey Bart,
Dont take my words for more then they are. I fully realize that your intentions were nothing more than to have fun with others, but take it from someone who has had trouble feeding his kid in the past, money can be a touchy subject, specially when some people are kept out of organizations for not having it.
But that doesn't matter, you just wanted to have fun, we all support the game, so I apologize if Ive made the experience worse for you.
Just so you know, I'm 100% cool with any sort of guilds being created, and I don't think you did anything wrong here.
So 250ers, get organized, find a good name, and prepare for battle, cause us 75ers are gonna be controlling most the map. :P
For the record I was offended by nothing. I am not easilly offended. I'm not like the bulk of Americans, practically looking for something to take personally and get angry about. I am not angry in the least- I'm just not a fan of the OP's idea.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I am playing Devil's advocate for something I think is a terrible idea (the $X dollar guilds), and I'd rather avoid going into who belongs to what group, but...
A $250 group does have one foreseeable upside. How much someone kicked in is really based on two things; can they afford it, and how motivated are they in seeing this be the best community/game that it can be. Their expendable cash generally but does not absolutely correlate with maturity, education, and so on. The size of their donation (honestly, if you can afford video games, you aren't in abject poverty) is a function of how much they care and an indirect screen for things which would make them high SES.
It's kind of like a cover charge and dress code at a classy night club; it might keep out some really solid folks and let in some upper class twits, but generally speaking, it does on the aggregate select for a different class of clientele.
Again, I think it's a terrible idea on other grounds, but that is a POV to consider.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I pledged 100$ due to finances. I would have done more, but I'm a disabled vet. I live off of a fixed income. --snip--
Hey Noch, disabled vet here also, you going to school on Chp 31 Voc Rehab? If you did not know you get your monthly plus they pay you to goto school.
Just wanted to throw this out to you. It helps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Each Reward Tier would have its own Clan <.<
The Demo Diabolists @ $5
The PDF Pirates @ $15
The Goblin Squad @ $30
The Print Paladins @ $50The Signature Sorcerors @ $75
The T-Shirt Gang @ $100
The Founder's Guild @ $250
The Guild of the Granite Lithographs @ $500The Order of the Alpha @ $1000
That's by far the coolest post yet
Just a T-Shirter m'self ey, but best luck to the Founder Forefathers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seems like you guys are just taking a idea that someone innocently came up with and are instantly using terms like elitist and douch bags. Really who cares what requirement someone puts on there guild. I am assuming that everyone complaining here doesn't meet it anyways. Neither do I for that matter.
Anyway Breezly I would suggest to change the name to The Goblinwork Founders or something. To avoid this kind backlash in game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Whenever you segregate groups of people and say that one is better than the others, even if that statement is false, there will be resentment among the other groups. If you secretly tell each of the groups that they are the special group, they will act in a discriminating manner against the other groups.
It's just sociology. All groups want to believe they are the special group.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Whenever you segregate groups of people and say that one is better than the others, even if that statement is false, there will be resentment among the other groups. If you secretly tell each of the groups that they are the special group, they will act in a discriminating manner against the other groups.
It's just sociology. All groups want to believe they are the special group.
You don't even need to tell them that one is better- just make it known that there are two different groups.