Guh!
Honestly trying to figure out proportional movement costs is more trouble than it's worth, IMO, I might be inclined to give a flat out NO.
If I did allow it, I would just let the character use whatever movement type he has enough movement left for. e.g. You could walk 30' then fly 20', but if you flew 20' first, you could only walk 10' since you can't walk anymore after you've moved 30'.
We generally allow this at our table, although the example of fly/walk is pretty moot, because you can just fly an inch off the ground, and get more movement out of it. But often we do things like walk 10 feet, then climb 5 feet (you can climb at a quarter of your ground speed, so that 5 feet is equivalent to 20 feet walking.) Or walk 10 feet and earth glide 10 feet.
Guh!
Honestly trying to figure out proportional movement costs is more trouble than it's worth, IMO, I might be inclined to give a flat out NO.
If I did allow it, I would just let the character use whatever movement type he has enough movement left for. e.g. You could walk 30' then fly 20', but if you flew 20' first, you could only walk 10' since you can't walk anymore after you've moved 30'.
Personally I'd rule it a bit different. The idea here is speed, not distance you can go without getting tired (or something like that). Movement would have to be proportionate. That means, walk 15 fly 25, or walk 20 fly 15, rounding down to the nearest 5 feet.
This reminds me of a funny story, where a character of mine was standing on a table, moves 15 feet across it, and because I had to 'jump' down the table (make an acrobatics check) that was 4 feet high, the GM considered it 2 actions and ended my turn after.
Does anyone else remember that advice thread from 3.5 about how to increase you movement speed, with methods appropriate to each level?
It started out with things you could do at level 1: "Falling is a free action: Be Creative".
Other things I suddenly miss: The damage from falling objects table from 3.0.
Indeed, I think you can move 550ft a round as long as it is straight down. :)
Just googled this, I agree.
| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Movement based on you land speed like climbing or swimming at quarter speed, or tumbling at half speed is simple.
The problem arises when you have multiple movement modes with different speeds.
If a creature had a 120' Swim speed and a 5' land speed, could it swim 60' walk 5' over a sand bar and swim another 60' as a move action?
Heck no! It takes him 6 seconds (or whatever time is allotted to moving) to move 5'! Unless he was doing a double move or something, in which case I'd allow it.
How is he getting out of the water?
A question for the ages.
Wait is this like a riddle or something?
How is he getting out of the water?Barrel roll.
Ya ask Peppy from Starfox
That is a good question. I think for sanity reasons, I would probably rule it that (generally) one movement mode per action. So move action is normal movement and standard is fly, for example.What about jumping?
You're blowing my mind.
Nah trick question, acrobatics bruh, standard action.
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That is a good question. I think for sanity reasons, I would probably rule it that (generally) one movement mode per action. So move action is normal movement and standard is fly, for example.What about jumping?
Well, like I said: generally. That being said, are there any creatures that have "jumping" movement rates? Or is jumping made as part of another mode of movement?
In 3.5, jumping was counted as part of you normal movement.
With a 30' move speed you could walk 10', jump over a 10' pit, and walk 10' more as a move action. If jump couldn't be completed in a single turn, it was completed in the next.
For example if you walked 50' then jumped over a 20' pit, you would move 10', stop, in mid-air, then finish the jump with another move action next round.
I don't remember if this was in the PH or if was Sage Advice.
If you aren't allowed to make an acrobatics check as part of your basic movement (to jump, roll, balance, whatever) in Pathfinder, that's a seriously stupid rules change that deserves immediate FAQ and/or houseruling.
When this comes up (and you'd be surprised how often it does at higher level), I generally just figure out the proportions on the fly, and try to keep it sensible.
For example :
Half-Dragon has 50 ft of flight, 30 ft of movement. Half-Dragon flies up 20 ft, grabs onto a ladder, and starts climbing up (too narrow to fly all the way to the top). He flew about half his flight (20 vs 50), so I just give him 15 ft for climbing. Since climbing is 1/4 speed, I would give him 5 ft and be done with movement for the round (15/4 = 4.something).
Would it not be simpler to use the slowest method of locomotion as the primary for this?
Fly 60, Land 30, Swim 30.
If you fly 50 feet into water or onto the ground as a single move action, that move action ends immediately, because you have already moved further than your swim and land speeds allow.
If you go to flight from land speed, I'd say that the move automatically starts in the air so you'd get the 60 feet. I don't see a need to get a running start; most birds don't.
Flying after swimming 25 feet up to the surface in a body of water would leave you with 5 feet of flight.
Is there any scenario where this would not work?
Regarding the above scenario: The 60' water, 5' sand bar, 60' water wouldn't work; you could swim 55-60' feet up to it, jump over the sand bar, and swim 55-60' on the other side, but that 5' sand bar is still part of the movement at the swim speed. If you swim to the sand bar and try to cross it with a 5' land speed, your move action would end before you actually entered that sand bar's square because it takes a whole 'nother move action to move that 5' feet on land.
Nah trick question, acrobatics bruh, standard action.Not so much brah.
Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Just googled this, you right meng. This begs the question, is the distance achieved by an acrobatics check deducted from your move action? Let's say I run 25 feet and jump horizontally 10 feet, is it possible? If so how many times may I jump in one round. Riddle me this.
Just googled this, you right meng. This begs the question, is the distance achieved by an acrobatics check deducted from your move action? Let's say I run 25 feet and jump horizontally 10 feet, is it possible? If so how many times may I jump in one round. Riddle me this.Nah trick question, acrobatics bruh, standard action.Not so much brah.
Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
You can't move faster than your speed. The movement used while using acrobatics counts towards your total movement.
I've often wondered if it would be a cool house rule to allow using acrobatics to increase your speed (parkour style stuff) or not, though.
Hardcore bruh! Parcor isn't faster than full speed, it just helps you get through rough terrain faster.
Hardcore bruh! Parcor isn't faster than full speed, it just helps you get through rough terrain faster.
But this is fantasy parkour, brah! Handsprings n' shite!
EDIT: Not for verisimilitude, but to make chase scenes down dark alleyways more intense. I guess using acrobatics to ignore the difficult terrain would work just as well.
In 3.5, jumping was counted as part of you normal movement.
With a 30' move speed you could walk 10', jump over a 10' pit, and walk 10' more as a move action. If jump couldn't be completed in a single turn, it was completed in the next.
For example if you walked 50' then jumped over a 20' pit, you would move 10', stop, in mid-air, then finish the jump with another move action next round.
I don't remember if this was in the PH or if was Sage Advice.
Wile E. Coyote would be proud.
OK, but that's kind of wonky.
If I have a swim speed of 30 and swim 30 feet, my movement would normally be over. By your example 3 though, I can now launch into the air and fly another 30 feet.
Or, by your example 2, I can climb 10 feet and my move should be over. But if there's some water there, I can jump in and swim another 20 feet - I've just taken two move action as one move action. If we change the speed in your example to 50, I can then jump out of the water and run another 20 feet - thus getting 2 and 1/2 movements for one move action. I've climbed a wall, swam across a pool, and sprinted down the street - all at the same speed as if I was just running.
(I'm wondering if this is really such a problem as to need a solution. Your original post made me think that somebody wanted to use their fly speed but was looking for a way around the fly skill.)
DMFTodd, I think we've made enough compelling arguments that at this point... Just let him spread his wings and fly.
OK, but that's kind of wonky.
If I have a swim speed of 30 and swim 30 feet, my movement would normally be over. By your example 3 though, I can now launch into the air and fly another 30 feet.
Or, by your example 2, I can climb 10 feet and my move should be over. But if there's some water there, I can jump in and swim another 20 feet - I've just taken two move action as one move action. If we change the speed in your example to 50, I can then jump out of the water and run another 20 feet - thus getting 2 and 1/2 movements for one move action. I've climbed a wall, swam across a pool, and sprinted down the street - all at the same speed as if I was just running.
(I'm wondering if this is really such a problem as to need a solution. Your original post made me think that somebody wanted to use their fly speed but was looking for a way around the fly skill.)
I don't think you understood what he said. Read it again, and pay attention to the Movement Pool bit, because I think that's where you're getting it wrong.
I think it's totally off. Your "speed" is only as high as your fastest movement type as long as you're moving at that speed. You have to think of it as "how far can I get in 3 or 6 seconds". If you move at ground speed 30, and fly speed 60, that means you move twice as fast flying in six seconds. That means that you need to calculate it proportionately, not as a maximum speed overall regardless of your method of travel. Just because you fly fast, doesn't mean you run fast.
On the same assumptions listed above, here are what I think should be your limitations:
Walk 0 fly 60
Walk 5 fly 50
Walk 10 fly 40
Walk 15 fly 30
Walk 20 fly 20
Walk 25 fly 10
Walk 30 fly 0
If you're double moving, then it's different
Walk 0 fly 120
Walk 5 fly 110
So on and so forth (I'm assuming you move double speed flying when double moving.
In this case, flying is twice as fast as walking, and rough terrain is half as fast as walking (I think), and I don't remember the rules for swimming.
Yar!
*THREAD-NECROMANCY!*
...
I'd like to bring this to light and perhaps get it FAQed (perhaps the first ever bestiary FAQ, as while it's possible for PCs to have multiple speed types, it is significantly more common with monsters).
It also comes up in my games (online and in RL) quite often.
I think it's worth the necro as well, as this thread has some good discussion regarding it.
I'm of the opinion that you can/should be able to combine different movement types in the same move action by figuring out the ratio of different speed values.
For example, if one has a 60' land speed and a 20' climb speed, the ratio is 60:20, simplified to 3:1. So 3' of land speed is equal to 1' of climb speed.
If you're using a 5' grid, it's probably best to round down the last bit of movement. (example: using the above 3:1 land to climb ration, the character moves beside a wall and partway through the single move action smoothly transitions to climbing up the wall (up or along the side, doesn't matter, he's got a climb speed). If he moves 25' on the ground, he can move another 10' on the wall (25' on the ground is equal to 25/3 = 8.33~ ' of climb speed. Cimb speed 20 - 8.33~ = 11.66~ feet of movement left for climbing, rounded down to 10')
So to reiterate the question in an easy to FAQ way... *makes another post with just the question*
...
| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
...Can a creature with multiple Speed values combine those movement types in the same Move Action?
If so, how should the total distance able to be traveled be calculated?
~P
I agree with the percentage explanation. If u use 50% movement while flying succesfully land and then move 50% of your land speed.
Swimming to land or flying is different as you need to get out of the water. In a beach situation I'd allow no action to get out of or in the water, but if there is some kind of embankment getting out of the water would require some kind of acrobatics, or climb check in order to make the transition from water to land.
And check the flying quality. Unless someone has at least above average handling I'd not allow them off the ground unless some running start was completed.
I am not sure if landing forces a fly check, but i would enforce that it would be neccasary to make a fly check in order to land standing up. Otherwise I'd say you'd end up in the prone position after landing, not neccasarily with damage (unless someone failed badly).