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I came up with an idea for a Darklands campaign after watching the Spoony One's recounting of his Thieve's World campaign.
It would involve the player characters, all Darklands races, venturing into a Drow city that has fallen into corruption, and being enlisted by the Matriarch to bring it back to prominence.
One problem I can foresee is is balancing the party between the darklands races they could play as, and balancing CR.
The CR problem could easily be fixed given experience, but I am not sure what to do with the race problem. I would not allow any creatures with racial HD.
All I can think would be strictly necessary for a race in the Darklands would be Darkvision, even 60ft would be useful. These are the races that I can think of that are suitable, based in rough order of their power level:
Svirfneblin
Drow (Roll for noble)
Duergar
Dhampir
Tiefling/Aasimar
Elemental Races
Strix
Half-orc
Dwarf
Ratfolk
Kobold
I am only operating on Bestiary I what I remember from the PRD, so I don't know if there are any other races in the later books that would work. For balancing, I am don't like the 'one level behind' way, so I was thinking of limiting the number of traits when they are created. For example, Half-orc and below would get three, while Duergar and above would get one. Either that or a feat for the less powerful races.
Any ideas/opinions?
(My apologies if this should go in the homebrew section)
You could also reskin certain races if you wanted to. The anthromorphic bird people (the name escapes me) could easily be reskinned as bat people. Just swap around some abililties. The speech thing for some blindsense or just make them mostly blind (like 10' sight) with deceent blindsense.
Also you could come up with an appropriate template such as Albino. Albino is essentially a surface race that over generations (or via magic) has adapted itself to the darklands. Change the coloring, add darkvision, and subtract something to balance it out. Could also add light sensitivity to help balance.
All in all it sounds like a fun game. If it's PBP let me know if you need another player.
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You could also reskin certain races if you wanted to. The anthromorphic bird people (the name escapes me) could easily be reskinned as bat people. Just swap around some abililties. The speech thing for some blindsense or just make them mostly blind (like 10' sight) with deceent blindsense.
Also you could come up with an appropriate template such as Albino. Albino is essentially a surface race that over generations (or via magic) has adapted itself to the darklands. Change the coloring, add darkvision, and subtract something to balance it out. Could also add light sensitivity to help balance.
All in all it sounds like a fun game. If it's PBP let me know if you need another player.
You mean the Strix? Hmmm... Flight might be a little too powerful, but by the time that would be overpowering, they could already cast Fly, so that would not be a problem. Adding it. Also, reflavoring they as bat-people would be easy with the Advanced Race Guide.
You mean the Strix? Hmmm... Flight might be a little too powerful, but by the time that would be overpowering, they could already cast Fly, so that would not be a problem. Adding it. Also, reflavoring they as bat-people would be easy with the Advanced Race Guide.You could also reskin certain races if you wanted to. The anthromorphic bird people (the name escapes me) could easily be reskinned as bat people. Just swap around some abililties. The speech thing for some blindsense or just make them mostly blind (like 10' sight) with deceent blindsense.
Also you could come up with an appropriate template such as Albino. Albino is essentially a surface race that over generations (or via magic) has adapted itself to the darklands. Change the coloring, add darkvision, and subtract something to balance it out. Could also add light sensitivity to help balance.
All in all it sounds like a fun game. If it's PBP let me know if you need another player.
Underground Flight doesn't come into play that often since lots of things can climb, jump, shoot webs, or otherwise still reach and kill you. Also many places aren't large enough to allow flight.
Back during AD&D I had a homebrew race that was a sub race of drow. They had been magically cross bread with bats and were-bats. Effectively they were Drow with natural bat wings. They considered themselves better than normal drow, effectively causing normal drow to want to obliderate them to prove otherwise.
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Also, how would I balance CR to these guys? I am expecting a significant amount of the party to be Drow. Would I just bump up their APL, or something?
You are right, flight would not be too overpowered. I can expect it would be powerful while they are in cities, out in the tunnels it would not have enough room to maneuver. But, at one point I plan on having them visit the Sightless Sea, but that will be at a later level.
Also, how would I balance CR to these guys? I am expecting a significant amount of the party to be Drow. Would I just bump up their APL, or something?
You are right, flight would not be too overpowered. I can expect it would be powerful while they are in cities, out in the tunnels it would not have enough room to maneuver. But, at one point I plan on having them visit the Sightless Sea, but that will be at a later level.
Regular Drow don't need a CR adjustment. Noble drow are +2 if memory serves. Plenty of nasty things in the underdark to send after them.
Regarding flight:
For a race that has levitate at will Flight isn't that much of an improvement. It is an improvement, mind you, just not much of one.
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SR is often as much of a pain as it is a boon. Remember, you have to lower it if you want to be poked by that cure wand. And SR 6+HD won't stop any BBEG's spells. Its almost better not to have it.
The SLAs are OK... But darkness does nothing if everyone around you has darkvision, dancing lights is a cantrip. Only faerie fire is actually useful, and its nothing to write home about.
Everyone keeps telling me that poison is good, but aside from Drow poison, all of them are far to expensive and low DC to use a lot. Drow poison is cool, and at higher levels it could get dangerous. However, its only really useful to archers who can pre-poison their ammo. It does nothing for a wizard.
The really big thing is 120ft dark-vision.
Overall, I don't think they are better than the Dwarf. Also, there is a dwarven alternate racial trait that gives them SR :)
Subterranean Yuan-ti! Perhaps with a chameleon like variant.
I think the elemental races are very wimpy.
They get an elemental resistance, darkvision, a whimpy 1/day SLA and the cleric/sorc boost.
The Cleric Sorc boost is quite good but so many classes can't use it.
Darkvision is nice.
The SLA quickly becomes useless, and its boring at 1/day.
The resistance does not come up *that* often.
The undine get a swim speed though. Not many races do, so that's cool.
Otherwise I think the elemental races are far too mechanically boring to play. I think you could give the sylph feather fall at will and let the others use their abilities 1/minute they would be much more interesting and still not strictly better than the core races.
Regarded the winged thing I have another option.
Races of the Dragon (3.0 or 3.5) had an option to have wings that improved with time and taking of feats. Below is the basic one, but one could easily adapt this to subterranian winged race. Basically you can glide and get a jump bônus then latter feats let you actually fly. Given the level reqquirement only the Heroic of a race would be able to truly fly, but having a race of gliders could be interesting.
DRAGON WINGS
Your draconic ancestry manifests as a pair of wings that aid your jumps and allow you to glide.
Prerequisites: Dragonblood subtype, 1st level only.
Benefit: You have wings that aid your jumps, granting a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks.
In addition, you can use your wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. You glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if your maneuverability improves, you can’t hover while gliding.
You can’t glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
If you become unconscious or helpless while in mid- air, your wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. You descend in a tight corkscrew and take only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
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Regarded the winged thing I have another option.
Races of the Dragon (3.0 or 3.5) had an option to have wings that improved with time and taking of feats. Below is the basic one, but one could easily adapt this to subterranian winged race. Basically you can glide and get a jump bônus then latter feats let you actually fly. Given the level reqquirement only the Heroic of a race would be able to truly fly, but having a race of gliders could be interesting.
DRAGON WINGS
Your draconic ancestry manifests as a pair of wings that aid your jumps and allow you to glide.
Prerequisites: Dragonblood subtype, 1st level only.
Benefit: You have wings that aid your jumps, granting a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks.
In addition, you can use your wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. You glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Even if your maneuverability improves, you can’t hover while gliding.
You can’t glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
If you become unconscious or helpless while in mid- air, your wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. You descend in a tight corkscrew and take only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
That sounds cool, but I want to keep this in Golarion (and Pathfinder) as much as possible.
I'm just spitballing.
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Duergar
Tiefling/Aasimar
Dhampir
Drow (Roll for noble)
Strix
Half-orc
Dwarf
Ratfolk
Kobold
There, I think that's better.
I don't want to forbid Duergar players, as I want them to be Darklands races, but Duergar still seem a little strong to me. Would not letting players play as them just be easier? It might help with the actual campaign, because I plan to have the PCs battle Duergar. One of the big moments I have planned is the PCs heading a drow invasion force to take a duergar city, ramming open the gates to find the entire city abandoned. Also, I took a look at Svirfneblin, who have a higher CR than normal, so I will drop them from the list. I also followed your advice on elemental races and dropped them.
Just make it clear that anyone playing a Duergar is a traitor to his or her race for whatever reason. That way they'll want ot attack them. Also might help mitigate the power difference if they have to remain secret from other Duergar. For that matter non-duergar will also probably want to kill/enslave him or her just for being one.
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One question I did have is a (very) old one: consolidating that the drow are traditionally Chaotic Evil, but have a functioning society. Of course the solution is that they are just as varied along the ethical spectrum as other races are. I was planning to have it so demon worship is common, diabolism is tolerated (though not much, only among the stricter houses), and daemons get the same scorn and stigma as other races, which put them at immediate odds with the urdefhan. Another plot twist I want to use is the conflict between the Thanatotic Titans and demons.