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Since the images are all understood to be within the same 5' space of the caster:
Are the mirror images of a creature with spell resistance also protected with that spell resistance to withstand targeted spells? As one's equipment would.
(For instance, an enemy firing magic missles targeting each of the images...)
Also, are the images protected from magic missiles if the creature has cast Shield spell?
Thanks,
Robert
This leads to another question since magic missile is a targeted spell. If you target an image does the spell fizzle(wasted), not activate, or just pass through the image?
This leads to another question since magic missile is a targeted spell. If you target an image does the spell fizzle(wasted), not activate, or just pass through the image?
You don't target the image, you point at the caster and let the magic sort it out.
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll
affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments.
But mirror image does not allow you to know which one is the right one. You have to know which one is the correct one to target it.
Edit: I corrected my terrible internet english.
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Thanks for that - d'oh! I had forgotten the wording of the Mirror Image helped clarify that - I was still thinking in 3.5 terms!
However, it still doesn't answer whether the images are protected by Spell Resistance - for instance if someone cast a Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray at the target and wound up hitting an image.
Thanks
Robert
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This leads to another question since magic missile is a targeted spell. If you target an image does the spell fizzle(wasted), not activate, or just pass through the image?
You don't target the image, you point at the caster and let the magic sort it out.
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll
affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments.But mirror image does not allow you to know which one is the right one. You have to know which one is the correct one to target it.
Edit: I corrected my terrible internet english.
I think what he's saying is that you point at the caster and images (the square in which it is occupying), and the nature of magic missile unerringly flies to the actual target bypassing the images.
Robert
I always thought an awesome spell combo would be Greater Invisibility with a Quickened Mirror Image. Do you all think that this would result in there being a number of images of yourself, none of which is actually you?
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I always thought an awesome spell combo would be Greater Invisibility with a Quickened Mirror Image. Do you all think that this would result in there being a number of images of yourself, none of which is actually you?
Actually the Invisibility would make the images useless because they'd be invisible too... unless your attacker had see invisibility, then the Mirror Image would act as normal.
--Jingle Bell Vrock
Why would they make the images invisible? Every DM I asked has said the same thing, but there's nothing (that I've seen) in the text that says why. Maybe I totally missed something obvious, but can someone point it out to me please?
Because the entire point of the spell is that the images are indistinguishable from the caster. That means every detectable effect applies to both the caster and the images. It's the same reason mirror image doesn't play very well with displacement.
Alright, that's disappointing but ok... so what would be a good level for a developed spell that does what I just described then in your opinions? I really want to be able to pull off that effect eventually.
PS, sorry for the threadjack.
It's the same reason mirror image doesn't play very well with displacement.
Why is that? Every image would have displacement.
Actually it's more a matter of choice. Lets say you've got 4 missles and 4 images (one of which is real).
You can...
1. Target one per image which will eliminate all the images and do some damage to the MI caster.
2. Hope you get lucky and target an image. The DM then makes an appropriate probability roll to see what you hit.
This may have been true, but not any longer. I think you can only target a creature with MM, and not the images. If you target a creature that has cast Mirror Image with Magic Missile, all missiles always hit the creature.
I personally dislike this, since it beggs the question from the master archer "Can't I just hold to attack whichever one gets hit by the Wiz's Magic Missiles?"I prefer to have the missiles cast at the target, but since there are multiple possible "targets", each missile has the chance to destroy a image or hit, just like a bunch of arrows.
AoE spells, of course, do not dispel the images.
Actually, the images are indistinguishable and constantly shifting, so even if all of the missiles strike the creature, you still cannot determine which image is the creature.
Also, I don't think it is possible to target individual images anyway. I think you just roll randomly every time you attack amongst the remaining images.
No, they hit what you TARGET. What you target here is the big question mark. And illusions for all the good it can do are targetable.Actually it's more a matter of choice. Lets say you've got 4 missles and 4 images (one of which is real).
You can...
1. Target one per image which will eliminate all the images and do some damage to the MI caster.
2. Hope you get lucky and target an image. The DM then makes an appropriate probability roll to see what you hit.
This may have been true, but not any longer. I think you can only target a creature with MM, and not the images. If you target a creature that has cast Mirror Image with Magic Missile, all missiles always hit the creature.
Actually targeting the images wastes the spell since magic missile must target a creature(s). Invalid target spell fails
Of course, you ARE saying that the guy standing with his bow ready who can shoot a guy through an arrow slot 150ft away in dim light CANNOT target exactly where the Magic Missiles just hit. That is the RAW, but it just seems wrong somehow, especially since the images could move fast enough to obfuscate the target, but the TARGET likely could not.I just prefer things a bit differently. And you still don't target individual images with MM. You target the caster, and the missiles decide for themselves which caster to target (not unlike radar/laser/sattelite guided weaponry).
Yup. MM works just the same as Hold Person now. You cast it on the creature and not on the effect they've generated. I'll probably have this same argument with my gaming group in another couple levels. We've always played where you can target images with MM to get rid of them, but I think the PF core rules are pretty clear it doesn't work that way any more.
Actually targeting the images wastes the spell since magic missile must target a creature(s). Invalid target spell failsNo, they hit what you TARGET. What you target here is the big question mark. And illusions for all the good it can do are targetable.Actually it's more a matter of choice. Lets say you've got 4 missles and 4 images (one of which is real).
You can...
1. Target one per image which will eliminate all the images and do some damage to the MI caster.
2. Hope you get lucky and target an image. The DM then makes an appropriate probability roll to see what you hit.
This may have been true, but not any longer. I think you can only target a creature with MM, and not the images. If you target a creature that has cast Mirror Image with Magic Missile, all missiles always hit the creature.
That is what I thought would happen.
Thanks for that - d'oh! I had forgotten the wording of the Mirror Image helped clarify that - I was still thinking in 3.5 terms!
However, it still doesn't answer whether the images are protected by Spell Resistance - for instance if someone cast a Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray at the target and wound up hitting an image.
Thanks
Robert
The images are just images. Only the actual target has SR. As an example if a balor has mirror image up and you tag an image it's gone. If you hit the balor then you have to bypass SR to hurt it.
Speaking of more mundane interactions with the images of the Mirror Image spell, what do you think of the Cleave/Great Cleave and the Whirlwind Attack feats ?
Cleave/Great Cleave:
"As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach."
Whirlwind Attack:
"When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent."
Now, technically the different images are not 'different foes', nor 'different opponents', but they are adjacent to each other and within reach.
I personally would allow a character with the Cleave feat to attack two images (hoping that one of them is the real one), and a Great Cleave could (if all attacks connect) wipe out the entire Mirror Image spell; same with the Whirlwind Attack.
What is your opinion on that ?
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I personally would allow a character with the Cleave feat to attack two images (hoping that one of them is the real one), and a Great Cleave could (if all attacks connect) wipe out the entire Mirror Image spell; same with the Whirlwind Attack.
What is your opinion on that ?
FWIW, that is the way it worked in 3rd edition. This was specifically asked and answered by Skip Williams of WotC in the FAQ and sage advice columns.
With my barbarian, Frostrazor, I destroyed many-a mirror image spell using my Whirlwind attack.
Robert
However, it still doesn't answer whether the images are protected by Spell Resistance - for instance if someone cast a Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray at the target and wound up hitting an image.
"If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed." Sounds pretty clear to me -- any hit destroys a figment, whether it would have affected the non-figment is irrelevant.
EDIT: answered already
Another Mirror Image question.
If you use Mirror Image in conjunction with Displacement will all of your images get displaced and have a 50% miss chance?
Another Mirror Image question.If you use Mirror Image in conjunction with Displacement will all of your images get displaced and have a 50% miss chance?
I think this has been covered a bunch in other threads, but the short answer is yes. Easiest way to handle it is during the attack, first roll displacement miss chance. If it misses, don't bother with the other rolls. If that attack is not affected by displacement, then resolve the mirror image effect as per normal.
Another Mirror Image question.If you use Mirror Image in conjunction with Displacement will all of your images get displaced and have a 50% miss chance?I think this has been covered a bunch in other threads, but the short answer is yes. Easiest way to handle it is during the attack, first roll displacement miss chance. If it misses, don't bother with the other rolls. If that attack is not affected by displacement, then resolve the mirror image effect as per normal.
Thanks for the input. The specific concept that I have in mind is for a Fighter-Sorceror who casts Mirror Image and then Displacement and wades into combat. I am still trying to wrap my head around the character. Would he be able to wade into combat without his opponents knowing which one was attacking them or would they know which one to target as soon as they got hit?
Thanks for the input. The specific concept that I have in mind is for a Fighter-Sorceror who casts Mirror Image and then Displacement and wades into combat. I am still trying to wrap my head around the character. Would he be able to wade into combat without his opponents knowing which one was attacking them or would they know which one to target as soon as they got hit?
All images are in the same square, so they will definitely know the square. When the opponent attacks, they attack the caster, and not a specific image. In resolving the attack, you roll to see if the attack was against the true target, or an image. You do this for every attack, so you never know that the "third image on the left" is the actual target and only swing at that.
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Speaking of more mundane interactions with the images of the Mirror Image spell, what do you think of the Cleave/Great Cleave and the Whirlwind Attack feats ?
Cleave/Great Cleave:
"As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach."Whirlwind Attack:
"When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent."Now, technically the different images are not 'different foes', nor 'different opponents', but they are adjacent to each other and within reach.
I personally would allow a character with the Cleave feat to attack two images (hoping that one of them is the real one), and a Great Cleave could (if all attacks connect) wipe out the entire Mirror Image spell; same with the Whirlwind Attack.
What is your opinion on that ?
Since you cannot target the images individually, you only have one target for cleave/great cleave/whirlwind attack to work off of, not 1d4 +1/3 levels to attack.
Since you cannot target the images individually, you only have one target for cleave/great cleave/whirlwind attack to work off of, not 1d4 +1/3 levels to attack.
Correct. See this thread.
However, it still doesn't answer whether the images are protected by Spell Resistance - for instance if someone cast a Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray at the target and wound up hitting an image."If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed." Sounds pretty clear to me -- any hit destroys a figment, whether it would have affected the non-figment is irrelevant.
EDIT: answered already
So why doesn't Magic Missile take down the images?
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So why doesn't Magic Missile take down the images?However, it still doesn't answer whether the images are protected by Spell Resistance - for instance if someone cast a Acid Arrow or Scorching Ray at the target and wound up hitting an image."If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed." Sounds pretty clear to me -- any hit destroys a figment, whether it would have affected the non-figment is irrelevant.
EDIT: answered already
due to this line from the mirror image spell:
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments.
Now it makes sense. However, how can you not know which image is the real one when they receive a melee attack? i.e. "The third one from the left is the one that hit me with the axe." The only way that I can see this working is if the images somehow converge when they attack making it appear like they are all attacking the target.
Now it makes sense. However, how can you not know which image is the real one when they receive a melee attack? i.e. "The third one from the left is the one that hit me with the axe." The only way that I can see this working is if the images somehow converge when they attack making it appear like they are all attacking the target.
All of the images are in your space (possibly overlapping) and mimic your actions exactly. You can certainly give whatever justification you'd like to explain the behavior of the spell. Regardless, the effect of the spell is that whenever the caster is attacked, there is a random roll to determine the resolution of that attack. Each attack (whether the prior ones were successful or not) requires another roll to determine what is hit. You don't target images, you target the caster. Much different from 3.5.
Now it makes sense. However, how can you not know which image is the real one when they receive a melee attack? i.e. "The third one from the left is the one that hit me with the axe." The only way that I can see this working is if the images somehow converge when they attack making it appear like they are all attacking the target.
Instead of visualizing the images as static duplicates standing around the caster, imagine them as several different versions of the original, all in motion, all in the same square, sometimes overlapping, and each indistinguishable from each other.