Twilight Knife Confusion


Rules Questions

Sczarni

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Twilight Knife:
You create a darkly sinister floating knife that attacks the same creature as you each round. If you choose not to attack a creature, or you make an attack that affects multiple opponents, the knife makes no attack during that round.

The knife uses your base attack bonus modified by either your Intelligence or Charisma bonus (whichever is higher) when making this attack. Unless you specifically will it to do otherwise, or it proves impossible to do so, the knife always maneuvers itself so that it can flank your opponent before making the attack. The knife deals 1d4 points of force damage on a successful hit and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a normal dagger. In addition, if the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the knife flanks the target, the knife can make sneak attacks as a rogue, inflicting an extra 1d6 points of force damage per four caster levels on a successful attack.

A twilight knife cannot be attacked or harmed by physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A twilight knife's AC against touch attacks is 12 (10 + size bonus for Tiny object) plus your Dexterity modifier.

If an attacked creature has spell resistance, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against that spell resistance the first time the twilight knife strikes it. If the knife is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled. If not, the weapon has its normal full effect on that creature for the duration of the spell.


States that Knife gets flanking bonus, not the player itself. Nowhere in the spell description does it say that it grants flanking to a player. Beside that the weapon doesn't threaten target, moves into flanking position( 5ft. from target on the opposite side) and is tiny ( 0 ft. range - usually couldn't flank), so the player cannot gain flanking bonus from the weapon itself. Am I only one seeing this right?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Of course it doesn't flank with the player! The player isn't part of the game!

Now, the CHARACTER on the other hand... ;P

Seriously though, as written it looks like it will flank with whomever is available. If, say, you are attacking it from range, and an ally is next to your enemy, the twilight knife will flank with your ally.

If that's the way it was meant to work, then neato.


Malag wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

States that Knife gets flanking bonus, not the player itself.

However, you can only get a flanking bonus by flanking with someone, in this case the caster, who should also get a flanking bonus.

Quote:
Nowhere in the spell description does it say that it grants flanking to a player.
Flanking is granted to the caster because the knife is flanking. It might flank an ally, too.
Quote:
Beside that the weapon doesn't threaten target, moves into flanking position( 5ft. from target on the opposite side) and is tiny ( 0 ft. range - usually couldn't flank), so the player cannot gain flanking bonus from the weapon itself. Am I only one seeing this right?

The knife is tiny. The spell would have to take up a square to flank, or else enter the square of the target.

This needs to be spelled out better, but I'm inclined to think the spell takes up a square, and the knife itself is tiny, as if wielded by a small or medium creature that flanks with the caster, or whoever. The caster is "you," so it may only flank you. It only attacks what you attack, though it might flank anyone you're attacking with someone else. FAQ'd.


I'm inclined to say that the knife is magical and as a spell ignores parts of the 'normal' flanking rules and simply say if you have an ally threatening the target then the knife treats the target as if it was flanking it.

I realize it's a bit of a cop out but that's my thought on it for what it is worth.

Sczarni

@What makes me think that only knife benefits from flanking is that it is stated in spell that it gets the flanking bonus, but the spell doesn't anywhere say that normal flanking rules are changed by it, hence it uses some "improvised flanking rules" on its own.

To me, it just seems that spell gives the flanking bonus to the dagger but not the caster since the dagger doesn't really threaten. If the dagger does threaten the target and grants flanking bonus then the dagger can take on attacks of opportunity as well.

I can't find really any weapon spell that works like this by granting bonuses, they usually create a weapon which attacks opponents. Only twilight knife confuses me because it grants flanking while other summoned weapons don't. Can anyone tell me of such summoned weapon spell which it grants such bonuses? I really can't find any at the moment.

Does this spell really change flanking rules?

Thanks for your responses so far.


To my knowledge, the only two requirements for flanking are:

- You are using a melee attack (which the knife is doing)
- The enemy is being threatened by an ally on the opposite side of its space.

While flanking usually goes both ways, I do not believe it is actually a requirement for the attacker itself to threaten an enemy. You could still get a flanking bonus from an ally without providing one yourself if you are capable of making a melee attack but do not threaten, which seems to be the case with the knife.

I do not think this is an exception so much as a scenario that doesn't often come into play.

Sczarni

That's what I am trying to say to some degree, 1 person could gain the benefits of flanking while other person wouldn't. It's probably rare case indeed and this is the first one which I might have encountered.

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