As a GM I can bend some rules a bit and some of my players are quite experienced and knowledgeable about the system and monsters and stuff.
So despite being good at separating Player and Character Knowledge, they tend to find reasonable argumentations why they would fight a certain creature a certain way that is very effective (even if only subconsciously).
I want to throw them a curve ball so they have no idea what to expect. But I would like to hear some opinions about what you think. Did I go too far? Is there a way to achieve the result with less breaking? What would you think if a GM lets you encounter this:
Zen Archer 4
Druid (Eagle Domain) 6
Arcane Archer 2
He specializes on ranged combat in the Form of a Manticore, imbuing his tail spikes with druid spells, while keeping out of range.
Rules I had to bend (break ^^):
Combining Arcane Archer with divine class.
Wisdom Bonus on attacks for the spiked tail attack instead of a bow.
Druid would need Beast Shape IV for Manticore, yet druids only get to Beast Shape III (I used the "Powerful Shape" feat as a "tax" so he can do this)
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This guy is supposed to be the right hand of the big boss of the whole story arc and thus should be a big challenge.
I thought, he'd use the Tar Ball spell imbued in his Spikes to pin the players down while he rains more spikes from above.
Hm... do you think my players would be angry if I shoot a volley of Rusting Grasp'd Spikes at them? :P
I'm sure that if you don't play him as super-optimized that it will be broken. I can't say if it would or not. Just looking at something on paper/computer screen doesn't really give an accurate read of how it will play out.
On the surface, I say it's fine and in-fact sounds AWESOME, so do it, just be sure that if he starts steamrolling your players that you scale him back a tad. It's awesome to make challenging encounters by bending rules as the DM, but it makes you feel cheated if you get your ass handed to you by the same.
EDIT: And yeah, multiple ranged rusting grasps while airborne sounds kind of harsh. But I don't know what your group is used to.
Normally, druids can't use Wild Shape to turn into magical beasts, so that's another rule you're bending.
Another rule you would be breaking:
Druid's wild shape does not allow manticore form as a manticore is not an animal- a druid cannot take the form of a magical beast.
All told, seems like too many extra bennies for the villian that you would not allow for the players, so I would say too much.
If you would like to do a similar effect, why not try someting else?
Do a druid with natural spellcasting. Pick one of the animal shamans, I like dinosaur, for more advanced forms at a lower level. Then add another spell casting class like sorcerer or magus. (Magus would require allowing use of natural attacks for spell combat.) Natural spell allows casting spells while wild shaped but does not restrict you to druid spells.
You're switching from ranged to melee, but still casting from an odd form to cause suprise.
Another way would be a creature with class levels. Perhaps a reincarnated spider with the arcane archer stuff for its web?
I just want to pop back in to say that it is the purview of the DM to bend and break rules as he or she sees fit, so long as it does not detract from the fun of the game.
I used to be an advocate of not building things players couldn't replicate, but then I realized that they can't play unicorns, or manticores, or demons, and I completely threw my old way of thinking out the window. As long as it's cool, fun, and doesn't make your players hate you, DO IT. Don't worry about the rules.
Anecdote: I have only ever thrown one full-blown arcane caster at my players, and I ad-libbed every bit of it. He pre-cast more spells than should be allowable, and used spells not on his list. That was also the only encounter I've been verbally commended on by them for its unique challenge. It was a rewarding experience breaking the rules, especially as a novice DM.
Personally, I'm not into the "NPC exceptionalism" kind of game. But some players love that kind of thing.
There is no reason whatsoever that your NPCs have to conform to the rules that PCs do.
The concept of NPCs capable of things PCs can't do is already embedded into the game. Just try to create an artifact and you'll see what I mean.
It's your world. If you want a tail-spike flinging manticore beast shape-shifting from man to beast form....
Just do it.
I love the concept.
Personally, I'm not into the "NPC exceptionalism" kind of game. But some players love that kind of thing.
I make up for it now with "PC exceptionalism." I give my players the option of creating cool new things to go with their characters, like a 6th sense that comes into play, or a bonus feat they normally wouldn't qualify for.
Unique monsters/NPCs are relatively common, and they often feature really cool abilities you don't see anywhere else. I learned that those encounters were more memorable, and giving my players unique traits helps make them feel unique.
There is no reason whatsoever that your NPCs have to conform to the rules that PCs do.
The concept of NPCs capable of things PCs can't do is already embedded into the game. Just try to create an artifact and you'll see what I mean.
It's your world. If you want a tail-spike flinging manticore beast shape-shifting from man to beast form....
Just do it.
I love the concept.
I find this comment funny in the light that one of the biggest strengths of 3e, for which it was lauded for, was the fact that PCs and NPCs used the same exact rules.
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I find this comment funny in the light that one of the biggest strengths of 3e, for which it was lauded for, was the fact that PCs and NPCs used the same exact rules.There is no reason whatsoever that your NPCs have to conform to the rules that PCs do.
The concept of NPCs capable of things PCs can't do is already embedded into the game. Just try to create an artifact and you'll see what I mean.
It's your world. If you want a tail-spike flinging manticore beast shape-shifting from man to beast form....
Just do it.
I love the concept.
Well cheapy, that would only qualify as "funny" to me if you had heard me say it. Which you most certainly never did because my worlds are full of all kinds of things NPCs can do that PCs can't. And have been for as long as I've been playing, which predates 2e even.
Now, it is true that the vast majority of my humanoid NPCs follow the same rules as the PCs. It's actually just easier to do it that way. "I need a cleric... OK roll one up..."
But if it is "I need a unique challenge as the lieutenant of the evil wizard" then all bets are off. He could be Green Lantern for all I care. He just has to be a challenge, that's all.
But if it is "I need a unique challenge as the lieutenant of the evil wizard" then all bets are off. He could be Green Lantern for all I care. He just has to be a challenge, that's all.
+1
Off-topic (apologies): I was JUST musing over things that PCs do that other things don't do, and I had a really interesting idea for a campaign where the PCs are taken from their home plane and stuck in an inter-dimensional gladiator stable by a race of extraterrestrial slavers. Then they're summoned at the whim of a wizard/sorcerer/summoner in an arena who buys up entire stables of exotic "creatures."
But if it is "I need a unique challenge as the lieutenant of the evil wizard" then all bets are off. He could be Green Lantern for all I care. He just has to be a challenge, that's all.+1
Off-topic (apologies): I was JUST musing over things that PCs do that other things don't do, and I had a really interesting idea for a campaign where the PCs are taken from their home plane and stuck in an inter-dimensional gladiator stable by a race of extraterrestrial slavers. Then they're summoned at the whim of a wizard/sorcerer/summoner in an arena who buys up entire stables of exotic "creatures."
Fourteen quatloos on the Captain!
{stuff}
Dude, you are the DM. Unless you plan on showing them the statblock, what does it matter? They won't know why this manticore is so bad-ass, they'll just appreciate the challenge.
What Dabbler said.
They'll remember the bad-ass manticore fight and need never (and should never) know how you built it.
"How did he do that?!"
The PC's *do not know the answer*
The PC's are not privy to all the knowledge in the univese. How you build your NPC's is certainly among the secrets of the universe, to them.
Want an NPC Druid spell slinging with its tail spikes?
/then make one/ and have fun with it.
(though no reason you can't just have a manticore with arcane archer levels mixed with some adept or witch, depending on the exact spells you are planning to lob with the spikes.)
-S
Eh, if it comes down to it, give the manticore class levels in druid and Divine(arcane) Archer. Druids don't turn into manticores, manticores turn into other things!
Thank you for your input. I realize now I could have had it much simpler. The Manticore is no mindless beast and simply can take class levels.
That's why I posted here. I was overlooking the obvious. Thanks for setting me straight ^^
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And on the subject of rule bending Yes/No I concur with the "as long as it is fun and challenging". Many plot things don't work with strict adherence to the rules.
Just take for example the wealth per level rules which don't apply to big bad doing their big plan. The have minions even though they much likely don't have leadership as feat.
And I do allow my players a lot of leeway. When they can give me a good reason why I should allow a feat for them even though they don't fit some prerequisites then I allow it.
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My view on NPCs breaking the rules: It's cool as long as, when the PCs ask about it and want to figure out how to pull it off, you give them a route to do so.
I really want to have a button attached to a big red light labeled "Find out in-character!"
Don't sweat breaking the rules too much as a DM, as long as you don't do so in a way that screws over some player's build for the rest of time.