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There is nothing that supports such a claim, at least from what is in RAW. By all means, if I am wrong, I welcome you to prove me so. Wrong or right, I like to know the rules.Wear a buckler, and a phalanx soldier fighter can wield two longspears.You have to be wielding the shield to be able to use a longspear one-handed, not just wearing it. Since you would be using a weapon with the "shield arm", you are no longer wielding the buckler shield; therefore, you cannot use a longspear one-handed without penalties.
C'mon, seriously. If you use a weapon with the arm that has the buckler strapped to it, you can't use the buckler...it doesn't provide the armor benefit. It is of no more use to you than if you were carrying it on your back. You are no longer wielding said piece of equipment. Since you are not wielding the shield, you don't gain the benefit.
Common sense supports such a claim. The fact that you are not wielding the shield supports such a claim.
Are you seriously trying to justify an argument that you can wear a buckler shield to try and get around an archetype that hinges on the concept of using a shield in one hand and a spear in the other to instead fight with two two-handed weapons without any penalties?
EDIT: removed a snarky comment.
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It's a wielding vs wielding issue. Does it mean wielding as in Defending (here the term means to have actually used it to make and attack) or wielding as in Dazzling Display(here it means having it out and ready to use).
If its the second I thought there was a feat that fixed that.
In the case BBT is trying to make, there is no distinction between these two issues: in the first case, the buckler shield is not being wielded to defend because that hand is attacking with a spear. In the second case, the buckler shield is not out and ready to use because he is using that hand to attack with a spear.
If he is holding a longspear in each hand, and one of his arms has a buckler attached, the only way he can make use of this archetype is if he says that he's not going to attack with the spear in his shield hand.
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C'mon, seriously. If you use a weapon with the arm that has the buckler strapped to it, you can't use the buckler...it doesn't provide the armor benefit. It is of no more use to you than if you were carrying it on your back. You are no longer wielding said piece of equipment. Since you are not wielding the shield, you don't gain the benefit.
You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
Seems to me to be very clearly saying you wield both at the same time. Simply loosing armor class bonus does not mean you're being deprived of having the thing on you.
Are you seriously trying to justify an argument that you can wear a buckler shield to try and get around an archetype that hinges on the concept of using a shield in one hand and a spear in the other to instead fight with two two-handed weapons without any penalties?
I think a -5 to all attack rolls (assuming TWF feat is taken, otherwise its an impresive -7/-11) is hardly fighting "without any penalties"
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Well, I guess it's FAQ time. I ask this, not for discussion, but to have it available to FAQ:
Can a Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype use his Phalanx Fighting Extraordinary Ability to equip a buckler shield and then dual wield longspears with no penalties for fighting with a two-handed weapon single handed? This question assumes that the fighter attacks with both spears in the same round either by high BAB or Two Weapon Fighting.
Hum... Wonder what AM BARBARIAN thinks of Don Quixote?
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Hum... Wonder what AM BARBARIAN thinks of Don Quixote?
That his int and wisdom are sub-optimally high?
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That has yet to be proven.Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.When the mount is charging you are charging.
The only other reading for a lance to work is to stand on the back of your horse and run forward as it does. Much like closing your eyes, it has been proven.
Doublestrike (a standard action) and Charge (a full round action) are mutually exlusive actions.
If I can Cast a Spell as a Standard Action after my Mount Charged, or I can shoot my Bow and Arrow (Standard Action Ranged Attack) after my My Mount Charged, I don't see why I can't make a melee Standard Action Attack. I don't think you can get around the fact that the RAW on Mounted Combat and Charge is just really wonky, stuff like Lance SHOULD specify that YOU are making a single Charge Attack, but it doesn't... Even the FAQ is clear on that count... If it were Errata'd to be 'you make single Charge attack', then the increased damage wouldn't apply to Doublestrike... But there's quite a few other problems with that whole area of rules, that needs Errata itself.
A titan mauler can do it. Why can't a phalanx soldier?
At -6 both hands. -4 for the off hand not being light, -2 for the jutung grip. Possible does not mean recommended or wise.
Every once in awhile people stumble across something that the text of rules might allow something unintended. That said this is one of those things that someone could try but if I was dming I would add a lot of minuses too. Charging on a mount is not just an issue of holding a lance it is staying in the saddle with force behind the lance (hence heavy calvary were not a real game changer till after the invention of the stirrup). So yes while mounted you can use a lance one handed. Now the RAW did not get into issues like armor that was made with a notch under the arm to facilitate charging with a lance and so forth as you might see in historical settings. Rather they let you use a lance and figured you would use a shield. So not only would two weapon fighting penalties apply -4. I think that it would be reasonable to assume at least an additional -2 for the awkwardness of aiming 2 lances. Lastly I would make a successful hit force a ride check to stay in the saddle. The change in how you would sit the saddle bracing for both lances would be akward. The DC would be 20 or so.
Ah so the old I don't like it so allow it but make it worthless play.
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That has yet to be proven.Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.When the mount is charging you are charging.
The only other reading for a lance to work is to stand on the back of your horse and run forward as it does. Much like closing your eyes, it has been proven.
Nope. SKR's ruling was for Barbarians thinking that could hold a lance in each hand while rage pouncing on foot.
Nothing official has been said about being able to pounce while mounted.
If it has then you need to provide me with a link or a quote.
Hum... Wonder what AM BARBARIAN thinks of Don Quixote?That his int and wisdom are sub-optimally high?
IIRC AM isn't that stupid. He's got a masters in engineering. Don't know his int score though. And isn't wisdom exactly what Don dumped to hell?
Ah so the old I don't like it so allow it but make it worthless play.
I thought I was being nice by allowing somthing that was virtually impossible. The rules weren't written to allow two lance charging as far as I can tell. If anything is possible because the player wants to my barbarian casts wish.
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If I can Cast a Spell as a Standard Action after my Mount Charged, or I can shoot my Bow and Arrow (Standard Action Ranged Attack) after my My Mount Charged, I don't see why I can't make a melee Standard Action Attack.
Except you can't cast a spell or shoot your bow after your mount charges. The rules are pretty clear on that. You can do either action while your mount double moves or runs, but it happens at the midpoint of the move. Double move is not the same action as charge.
That has yet to be proven.Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.When the mount is charging you are charging.
The only other reading for a lance to work is to stand on the back of your horse and run forward as it does. Much like closing your eyes, it has been proven.
Nope. SKR's ruling was for Barbarians thinking that could hold a lance in each hand while rage pouncing on foot.
Nothing official has been said about being able to pounce while mounted.
If it has then you need to provide me with a link or a quote.
When your mount charges, you charge with it. You get the charge bonuses from charging . You get the double damage on the lance from charging. You get the armor class penalty from charging.
In short you're charging.
SKR's post is obviously and specifically talking about iterative attacks on the back of a mount, not two lances. The momentum problem doesn't apply.
this is the question
If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the extra damage multiplier from charging?
Iterative is specifically multiple attacks with the same weapon from a high BAB. SKR's reasoning (justifiably) steps outside of the rules a little bit and gets into the physics of it, but the physics wouldn't be a problem for two lances both going forward at the same time.
SKR's post is obviously and specifically talking about iterative attacks on the back of a mount, not two lances. The momentum problem doesn't apply.
this is the question
If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the extra damage multiplier from charging?
Iterative is specifically multiple attacks with the same weapon from a high BAB. SKR's reasoning (justifiably) steps outside of the rules a little bit and gets into the physics of it, but the physics wouldn't be a problem for two lances both going forward at the same time.
Nppe, SKR never mentions mounts. Because the question asked never mentioned mounts.
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Nppe, SKR never mentions mounts. Because the question asked never mentioned mounts.
SKR's post is obviously and specifically talking about iterative attacks on the back of a mount, not two lances. The momentum problem doesn't apply.
this is the question
If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the extra damage multiplier from charging?
Iterative is specifically multiple attacks with the same weapon from a high BAB. SKR's reasoning (justifiably) steps outside of the rules a little bit and gets into the physics of it, but the physics wouldn't be a problem for two lances both going forward at the same time.
Correct! Like I said earlier, SKR was addressing the issue of a barbarian on foot trying to charge with a lance while using ragepounce in order to do charge damage with the lance. A separate issue with regards to "mounts and PC's charging" was given over to the designers but they have yet to give us an official ruling on the matter.
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Pounce Only applies while you are charging, Not while your mount is charging.When the mount is charging you are charging.
Not at all.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
So, when your mount charges, you take the penalty and get the bonus, but that's it. You're not actually charging, and cannot pounce. (Although your mount can)
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So, when your mount charges, you take the penalty and get the bonus, but that's it. You're not actually charging, and cannot pounce. (Although your mount can)
Paizo should be more stric with the wording of the abilities. for example, this contrdicts your point
Cavalier’s Charge:
At 3rd level, a cavalier learns to make more accurate charge attacks while mountedand this
Mighty Charge:
At 11th level, a cavalier learns to make devastating charge attacks while mounted
The problem is how you are reading it. When it says "cavalier" in the description it is talking about the class and not the person itself. A charging mount still uses up your charge action even though you aren't the one who is physically doing the charging.
Nppe, SKR never mentions mounts. Because the question asked never mentioned mounts.
... praytell what extra damage is the question asking about? Charging doesn't give you bonus damage, and why bring a lance into it?
So, when your mount charges, you take the penalty and get the bonus, but that's it. You're not actually charging, and cannot pounce. (Although your mount can)
As stated previously, by that logic the lance doesn't work at all.
Human Monk(Sohei)-1: Two Weapon Fighting, Mounted Skirmisher.